Wiki: DokuWiki vs MediaWiki

[TeMc]

Hi Guys,

About an hour ago I started a wiki for these Knight Rider Locations, hope you like it.

Right now, I'm just finished installing the software and creating the rules.


--
TEM Corner

PS: The address is currently just a simple subdomain, but 've got enough bandwidth and webspace:
KRLoc.oerknor.nl KRLoc, all Knight Rider Locations - in one spot

[neps]

Hey TeMc, sorry about your message, we will look into it.

This site does have a Wiki associated with it - so I'm not sure its the best way to get into the Knight Rider world than to just take content that you had no involvement with...

if you'ld like to help, we'd love to have you! the wiki works with your forum username and password.

**edit: the wiki is offline while I install a service release.

[TeMc]

@neps: I noticed the wiki (2 years ago) and at that time it looked more like a documentation that was fully integrated with the website, rather then a to-user-by-user thing.

Now that I look again, I see it has changed a lot. But I'm not sure a DokuWiki system is ideal to create this kind of thing. Also because is has less interface and features.
Not that the Locations-thing needs a lot of features but these are certainly handy:
* Upload pages
* Special pages
* Search engine
* Talk pages
* Easy to use categories
* Templates

I'm not saying knightrideronline.com should change the wiki. Actually, exactly the oposite. The current wiki is great for this use. I have to admin that I haven't heard of DokuWiki. But as far as I can tell from my 5 minutes investigation (thx to Google adn FireFox) I think I'm gonna use DokuWiki for a few things I'm working on. But certainly not a wikipedia-like thing.

About my involvement, I'm an active Knight Rider fan since I was 12 (I'm 16 now) and have knightrideronline in my RSS Reader. And check the forum every day. Just since today I created an account, becuase I wanted to talk about this LocationsWiki.

My perposal is to create an offsite wiki. Not specifcly related to knightrideronline.com but just another thing. This, becuase I have other sources too that are collecting things like this.

So it's handy to get it all in 1 place that's easy to use. Rather then a section in a PhpBB Forum or DokuWiki.
On the other side... It's also handy to have everything in 1 place. Meaning 1 domain that has it all.

Anyway, I'm continueing to get a few episodes on the wiki, just to get an idea. Let me know what you know.



Feed back appriciated,
TeMc

PS: Please respond in this topic, so that others can give input as well

[TeMc]

Just a quick reply to let you guys know that I've got the Locations-wiki ready-steady-Go !.

Currently done:
* Added infoboxes with automatic links to the episodeguide of KnightRiderOnline.com
* ,, ,, ,, of the Knight Rider Archive-website
* Created Singe-line modules that link to Google Maps for /with coordinates
* Categories created for seasons and locations
* Designed a KRLoc logo applied to the webpage
* Short and Friendly URL's installed (w/index.php?title=Trust_Doesn%27t_Rust becomes wiki/Trust Doesn't Rust)


Check it out:
KRLoc.oerknor.nl

[Matthew]

Hi TeMc,

I'm sure you mean well, but I'm not sure that advertising your own Wiki is necessarily the best way to go since Neil has had one on this website for as long as I can remember. I firmly believe that it would be in all of our best interests to centralize our informational sources.

Matt

[TeMc]

Okay. But how could we do this ?\



Is it allowed / possible / good idea to this this in a DokuWiki ?

[jyd85]

Okay. But how could we do this ?\



Is it allowed / possible / good idea to this this in a DokuWiki ?

Maybe you could start a thread about it over at the Board Dealings forum:

viewforum.php?f=3

Maybe you'll get a response from the moderators over there.

[TeMc]

DocuWiki is the software used for the wiki on knightrideronline.com



Bythwway, currently the episode guide isn't in the wiki. It would be easier to have the episodes in the wiki.
That way we could just make another chapter besided Summary, Teaser and Credits with "Locations"

A little like as in this example page on my wiki: http://krloc.oerknor.nl/wiki/Goliath-example

[neps]

TeMc- I'm gonna pull your discussion out of this topic and into its own for a couple of reasons.

- lets keep the thread about finding new locations
- i don't want our discussion to get lost in 7 pages

But I'd love to debate MediaWiki vs DokuWiki some more. I'm not sure why I picked DokuWiki at the time - it's probably because it has been and is easy for people with forum accounts to use the same logins to edit the wiki - I didn't want people to have two accounts.

The episode guide here was built before the Wiki - and time is always short on things to update on the site. But We'd always love to have people that want to work together to make things better here. So if you're willing to help, lets build something better together.

The only issue I see with your example is credit. A lot of the stuff you are repurposing you don't give proper credit - some images are from Joe or Sue or others. Additionally - its wrong to hot link to wmv or other files like you have - cause it eats at our bandwidth while not helping support the site by showing the proper context or loading an ad. I realize this was only an example, but just suggestions.

[Sue]

TeMc, I really do appreciate your efforts and ideas and perhaps a new format for our locations thread is needed but here are some of my thoughts…
The locations thread really has been a community effort and a lot of time and energy has been spent by KRO members to provide these images for the benefit of that specific community. (And yes, the ads seen in our forum benefit our community.) If a new format is needed perhaps we can work together to recreate the thread in some new format here.
The problem I see is that your wiki has no links to the KRO forum. It is the encouragement and feedback received from this community through this forum that continues to motivate us to invest our own time.
(But thank you I am flattered that there is such an interest in my photos.)

[TeMc]

Hi, about credit

Offcourse this exampe page, isn't the final result. Actually, it is the only page that has copied text on it. The other 4 episode pages don't have that on them.

The reason I did copy it in the example, was... to illustrate the example.
That is the way I think we should organize an episode guid into the "KRO Wiki", whether on DokuWiki or MediaWiki.
Also, most of the pictures ara credited, if you click on the pictures you go to a typical wikipedia-image pages where I tried to give credit as much as I can.
But obviously I should have asked the photographers. (Bytheway, Sue did have me permission, as long as I would give credit to him by his Live Spaces webpage).

About the problems with credit (all of the next is written, with the asuming/asumation that the summarys in KRO's Episode Guide are re-written, of written by somebody that gave the proper rights to KRO).

We could CreativeCommons-license all pictures used by our forummembers by linking to their nickname and memberpage. And on request to their Real Name and/or their disired webaddress.

The summary's don't have to be credited, as long as the wiki is on the kro-domainname. Since there is/will be a footnote from KRO under every page.

About the Trivia and KREpisode Credit, those where quickly picked from KRA as an example. I thought it would be nice to have Credits and Trivia too, after the Summary, Locations and Infobox*.

*Infobox: air date, sequence nummer, episode name, etc.
--------------------------------
User database:

That's right, I agree it is better and only-accapteble if the userdatabase is shared. I found out that DokuWiki supports this (obviously). I don't know about MediaWiki yet.

PS: I now read "I realize this was only an example, but just suggestions".
RE: Suggestion: Keep the wiki host on the kro-domainname.
Solution for wmv in wikipages: Use a pop-up.

In the popup will be a little html file loaded. A lot like the rightside part of the episodeguide-pages. Only popped up via the wiki.


-
Grtz,
TeMc

TeMc- I'm gonna pull your discussion out of this topic and into its own for a couple of reasons.

- lets keep the thread about finding new locations
- i don't want our discussion to get lost in 7 pages

But I'd love to debate MediaWiki vs DokuWiki some more. I'm not sure why I picked DokuWiki at the time - it's probably because it has been and is easy for people with forum accounts to use the same logins to edit the wiki - I didn't want people to have two accounts.

The episode guide here was built before the Wiki - and time is always short on things to update on the site. But We'd always love to have people that want to work together to make things better here. So if you're willing to help, lets build something better together.

The only issue I see with your example is credit. A lot of the stuff you are repurposing you don't give proper credit - some images are from Joe or Sue or others. Additionally - its wrong to hot link to wmv or other files like you have - cause it eats at our bandwidth while not helping support the site by showing the proper context or loading an ad. I realize this was only an example, but just suggestions.

[TeMc]

See above post and this:

Reason for no links to forum is the fact that I haven't found out how to link to a dynamic page in wikipedia yet.
See the example page, and click view source, and scroll to the bottom. Overthere there is an attempt to get linkt to KRO. In this case to the episode guide, but I tried the forum as well. Didn't work.

I can link (to dynamic pages) if I make a seperate link, but not via Template:...

If the wiki gets serious I/we/communty will have to figure out how to this this.
My idea is to link the the appropiate post directly.

Like: From: knightrightonline.com-forum post

TeMc, I really do appreciate your efforts and ideas and perhaps a new format for our locations thread is needed but here are some of my thoughts…
The locations thread really has been a community effort and a lot of time and energy has been spent by KRO members to provide these images for the benefit of that specific community. (And yes, the ads seen in our forum benefit our community.) If a new format is needed perhaps we can work together to recreate the thread in some new format here.
The problem I see is that your wiki has no links to the KRO forum. It is the encouragement and feedback received from this community through this forum that continues to motivate us to invest our own time.
(But thank you I am flattered that there is such an interest in my photos.)

[TeMc]

Okay.

' see in the wiki that all locations are stored in 1 page currently.

Should we make a poll about how this is being done, in order to prevent a total edit war ?

Options:
A) Create individuel pages and/or sections in the "Locations-page" for episodes (and in there the used locations and compared shots)
B) Create pages/sections for locations (for example Los Angeles or New Yowk) (and in there the episodes wich where filmed there anda the compared shots)
C) Both (in the episode-page/section at the used locations a link to the location-page where is a list of other episoded that where filmed there).

Suboptions for option B and C:
1) Include the episode summary, and other things (soo it will a be a complete episode guide)
2) Just a link to other parts (link to episodeguide at KRO, and links to other pages if so).

Personally I'd go for Both, including a full guide (so that everything is centralized), so that'll be optino C-1.

Just a question, so everything is OK.

[SacValleyDweller]

Skimming the chaos above and reading the thread title, here's my 2 cents:

Being familiar with the MediaWiki-type software as an editor at http://heroeswiki.com, I think that a Mediawiki-type system for a Knight Rider Wiki would be the best option. It's fast to load and there are a lot of things that can editors (anonymous and registered) can do, depending on what the Admins have the software set for. It's also easy to navigate if set up right.

[TeMc]

I agree with you, actually.

But the reason neps (and me too) think we shouldn't is because of the compatiblety with the phpBB3-forum software.

The userdatabase from the forum uses the same kind as the DokuWiki, meaning that with just a little fix all users can automaticly log in to the DokuWiki too. This is the current state, as you may now.
On the other side, we have the MediaWiki (my personal favorite), wich is not compatible by default with the phpBB forum user database.
As far as I know, this is the only issue with MediaWiki so far.

If anyone knows how to get this done with a MediaWiki (either a plugin or a by hand code edit for either MediaWiki, phpBB or the database itself) let us hear your voice !

Or I anyone had pro's/con's for any of the wiki softwares let it know too !
At the moment I think MediaWiki had no con's, besides the user database wich I hope can be fixed.


--
Grtz,
Timo, while Googlin' for a fix.



== EDIT ==
Okaay, I think I got it.
It's called Auth_phpBB-extension for MediaWiki (release: stable)

Route: g mediawiki phpbb >> METAwiki/PHPBB/Users Integration >> MediaWiki.org Extensions page

It requires/is compatible with latest MediaWiki(1.12.x) and phpBB(3.x). Only 1 known issue with certain usernames, but there is a little mod for this available for phpBB.


- TeMc

[neps]

Hey Guys,

I appreciate all this info, I really do. I'm willing to give MediaWiki a shot now that you've found this plugin, and since more people are familiar with MediaWiki - maybe its a good idea so people don't need to relearn everything.

I also would like to make it fit the format of this site as much as possible - as I've seen in the pass, a MediaWiki always looks like a MediaWiki, where DokuWiki in my experience has been more visually customizable.

I'll try to get to it soon, I'm headed to San Diego tomorrow, and I've got a long punch list to complete before then.

Neil

[TeMc]

Well, I (or should I say "we", since it's 'bout wiki's) are glad to help you, in anyway we can !

Hey Guys,

I appreciate all this info, I really do. I'm willing to give MediaWiki a shot now that you've found this plugin, and since more people are familiar with MediaWiki - maybe its a good idea so people don't need to relearn everything.

I also would like to make it fit the format of this site as much as possible - as I've seen in the pass, a MediaWiki always looks like a MediaWiki, where DokuWiki in my experience has been more visually customizable.

I'll try to get to it soon, I'm headed to San Diego tomorrow, and I've got a long punch list to complete before then.

Neil

[SacValleyDweller]

With regards to customization, MediaWiki has things called skins, which they have a manual about at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Skins . Wkimedia also has a page about skins at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Skins .

[SacValleyDweller]

Any progress with regard to this development?