Knight industries sure makes things FAST!!

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Knight industries sure makes things FAST!!

Post by knighttwothousand » Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:58 am

IM SURE THIS ONE WILL GET ALL STARTLED...
In TRUST DOESNT RUST script, it is written that......Hold your breath....
KITT was started to be "manufactured" ONLY TWO WEEKS BEFORE THEY HAD FOUND MICHEAL LONG IN THE DESERT!!!!!
Assuming that michael stayed at wilton's place for a few weeks, this means that the knight industries managed to build a car like kitt in under a month!!!
I know this is hard to believe, but it is written in the script...
Manufacturing an ordinary automobile takes quite a lot of time...And KITT was nowhere near an ordinary car.They had to design KITT, manufacture all those custom-made, top secret parts that would have taken years to build AAND put those parts together!! ALSO was PROGRAMMING him, giving him the voice, the A.I
TWO WEEKS IS VERY LITTLE TIME folks

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Post by knight productions » Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:06 am

True,
But remember they had already built KARR so all of the parts needed would have already been designed and manufactured for him. So they would have just run off another set of parts and built the whole car. The only real difference is his programming and voice box. They had to speed up production as well due to Wiltons failing health. This pretty much explains how they got it together. But KARR may have taken years and years to get right.

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Post by Knight2000 » Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:30 am

If you remember in the pilot ep, Wilton wanted the car to be finished in a hurry, with crews working around the clock. With enough people working on KITT, it IS possible. Especially since everyone knew how to put him together via KARR.

BTW in JYD, how long did it take for the team to reassemble KITT? Coz if they did it in one day, or even slightly more, they could definitely have a finsihed product within two weeks.


Hmmm.....I also remember something in the Pilot about KITT being done in about one month which means that there may be a continuity error - at least either in the KR world, or in my brain.

Hope it's not the latter :cry:

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Post by knightimmortal » Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:03 pm

This is pretty darn funny, and just shows how much the writers created their own world and for no reasoning at all, continuity was thrown out the window.

DEVON
Two weeks before we found you in the
desert, near death, Wilton activated
the crowning invention of his life....

MICHAEL
Kitt?

DEVON
No...Karr....

MICHAEL
Karr?

DEVON
'Knight Automated Roving Robot'...
Wilton's sobriquet for his prototype
vehicle.

MICHAEL
I like 'Kitt' better.

DEVON
You can say that again. Kitt's
primary function is to serve you...and
protect you from harm....

BONNIE
But Karr...the earlier model...had
no such programming. Instead, self
preservation was its primary
function.

MICHAEL
And that was a mistake?

DEVON
A major one.

MICHAEL
Like not telling me about all this?

BONNIE
Don't look at me...before my time.

DEVON
Michael, please...consider the
circumstances...Just as Wilton
realized he'd erred by not
programming Karr properly, his
company was almost toppled from
within...by the same people who left
you for dead on that desert highway
...In the turmoil to save your life
and build a safer car, the earlier
model was put in storage. I
thought Wilton had had it dismantled
before he died...obviously, I was
wrong.

So yeah, technically, KARR was activated two weeks before Michael Long's death. In those two weeks, Tanya Walker started to make Knight Industries crumble, they found out KARR had a screw loose, and then started on KITT.

The only way this was feasibly possible (and I only do this because my mind has a need to try to find logic in some places) was if they were working on KITT simultaneously at the same time as KARR, that they had the body virtually together, but hadn't done the AI's predominant programming. That actually does happen in R & D facilities, they build two, one to fall back on in the case the first fails.

In the pilot, they talk about how three months previous, Michael Knight didn't exist, so it took at least three months for them to at least get Michael Knight registrered into society. It also took Tanya three months to get into Comtron. So you are looking at three-four months for Michael's recovery and KITT's finalization.

TANYA
What have you found about about him.

WILSON
He doesn't exist. We've run his
credit card numbers from the club,
car license...Everything. Up until
three months ago, there was no
Michael Knight.

She looks at Wilson...then back to the track.

And there is never a time establishment in JYD.

KI

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:21 pm

In TRUST DOESNT RUST script, it is written that......Hold your breath....
KITT was started to be "manufactured" ONLY TWO WEEKS BEFORE THEY HAD FOUND MICHEAL LONG IN THE DESERT!!!!!
That's from an early version of the script. In the actual episode, Devon says "Six months before we found you in the desert..." That helps bring some sense to the overall timeline of the series.
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Post by MKnightRider82 » Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:34 pm

I thought KARR was programmed and then deactivated six months before Michael Long was found. I always felt like they got busy working on KITT when they had finally found the driver for their special car.

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Post by 86chvs10 » Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:04 pm

and in trust doesn't rust i believe that kitt and karr had different motors because karr engine sounded different from kitt's engine and that a little different. because karr's engine sounded like it could go faster than kitt's engine could go.so that completely different between kitt us karr.

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Post by knighttwothousand » Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:10 am

WELL....
Even IF they built KITT in 6 months, that is a VERY VERY short period of time!!!! KITT was the car of the future...It had NO components that were produced anywhere else. As for the spare parts, when they made KARR, they wouldnt have thought of manufacturing TWO copies of a part. They simply had no reason to.
As an example.....Suppose you make an electronic circuit...and you buy all the components.You will buy only what is needed.Will you buy two parts when you need only one?KITT's or rather KARR's components werent available "OFF THE SHELF". They costed a hell lot of money and effort, and the technicians and scientists couldnt waste time manufacturing extras ...
ALSO, when something like KITT is built, a LOT of time goes into testing.... A LOT OF TIME....When did they find time to test all KITT's functions???

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Post by knightshade » Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:32 am

knighttwothousand wrote:WELL....
As for the spare parts, when they made KARR, they wouldnt have thought of manufacturing TWO copies of a part. They simply had no reason to.
Actually, it's usually a good idea to buy spares, especially with a prototype. Things get damaged in testing and there's always the chance that when you apply power to a board the first time, it'll smoke (although I'm sure FLAG engineers never had that problem :D ). Also, with certain parts, manufacturers won't let you buy just one. There are minimum required buys.

The only reason not to buy spares is money (which is usually a short sighted reason anyway, because you end up spending more money trying to get around the problem of not having the spares you need). Since this was Wilton's dream project, he was probably willing to spend a lot of money on it. Considering that he wanted it done quickly, I think it's a safe bet that they had spares for everything.

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Post by knighttwothousand » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:20 am

knight shade wrote:-
Actually, it's usually a good idea to buy spares, especially with a prototype. Things get damaged in testing and there's always the chance that when you apply power to a board the first time, it'll smoke (although I'm sure FLAG engineers never had that problem ). Also, with certain parts, manufacturers won't let you buy just one. There are minimum required buy[/quote]

WHO says anything about BUYING? All parts of KITT or rather KARR were manufactured by Knight Industries....
Another example....The U.S.A.F takes years and years to build a version of the same aircraft. The F-15 strike eagle came MUCH after the F-15, although they are of the same design. KITT had different programming!
The air force has super-computers to model, test, create and evaluate the fighter jets, and yet it takes them years to build the same kind of aircraft.
All aircraft have the same principle fundamental requirements...
KITT, on the other hand , required new engine, new body, etc, etc...

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Post by ColeGrad01 » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:23 am

I always thought KITT was just a correction of KARR. They found out their first supercar was faulty, so they made up another one and did things a bit differently.

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Post by knighttwothousand » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:32 am

YES, KITT was just KARR...only with different AI programming...

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Post by knightimmortal » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:37 am

knighttwothousand wrote:
WHO says anything about BUYING? All parts of KITT or rather KARR were manufactured by Knight Industries....
Another example....The U.S.A.F takes years and years to build a version of the same aircraft. The F-15 strike eagle came MUCH after the F-15, although they are of the same design. KITT had different programming!
The air force has super-computers to model, test, create and evaluate the fighter jets, and yet it takes them years to build the same kind of aircraft.
All aircraft have the same principle fundamental requirements...
KITT, on the other hand , required new engine, new body, etc, etc...
Let me let you in on a few things here, Knightshade is an Engineer (if I remember correctly), so she has a general idea of what she is saying. I also work in research and development, so I have an up close and personal idea of what happens as well. (Not bragging, just setting up a little grounding here)

In all theory, generally when you are creating something, you would be an absolute idiot to create just one item. Whether it be a circuit board, a retro rocket, or a special design bolt built to withstand heavier torque. In the Air Force, NASA, anywhere, even in general experimental design, they don't build just one, they build back-up parts, and back-up systems. If one thing goes wrong, and you blow out the system, rather than starting all over again, you just change one thing on the next backup and move on. If that doesn't fix the problem, you change another thing on the next backup, to see if that fixes the problem.

So, if you read this carefully and understand what is being said here, it is extremely possible that KITT had already been built, even if it was just the parts, because they were KARR's backups. I highly doubt that Knight Industries would blow their entire wad, not to mention violate all scientific principles and procedure as to not have the backup parts for each and every part of KARR. They had to change KITT's programming. The base programming was already in the circuits, boards, etc. All they had to really change was the thing that was incorrect to them and remove all aspects of the original programming and put in the new commands. By all means that should have taken no more than six months.

There is also no evidence that Knight Industries created all of the parts in KITT, in fact there is some general concept that several of KITT's systems came from elsewhere.

As for any variation of the F-15 or any other plane, if there was a change in one type of programming, it wouldn't take more than a few months or weeks, if there is more than one change, it can take years to fix, specifically if it is in a non-programmable design.

KI

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Post by Army_F_Body » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:59 am

I agree. Mind you I'm no Bonnie, but when I was building my KARRs voice display a few months back (back before I through in the towel and decided to get one from Mark) I bought plenty of spare parts to ensure I would have enough if I were to flub something.

In the Knight Rider legacy book I am currently reading (great Christmas gift :) ) it says something that KITT's first dash in the pilot had to have totally custom built components, but they still utilized a common set of core parts to be used (capicitors, diodes, etc). I imagine FLAG would try to cut costs as much as possible and save time by utilizing pre-existing components whenether possible.

I agree that it is a fast construction, though.

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This refers to knightimmortal's post.

Post by knighttwothousand » Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:16 am

theory, generally when you are creating something, you would be an absolute idiot to create just one item. Whether it be a circuit board, a retro rocket, or a special design bolt built to withstand heavier torque. In the Air Force, NASA, anywhere, even in general experimental design, they don't build just one, they build back-up parts, and back-up systems. If one thing goes wrong, and you blow out the system, rather than starting all over again, you just change one thing on the next backup and move on. If that doesn't fix the problem, you change another thing on the next backup, to see if that fixes the problem.

So, if you read this carefully and understand what is being said here, it is extremely possible that KITT had already been built, even if it was just the parts, because they were KARR's backups. I highly doubt that Knight Industries would blow their entire wad, not to mention violate all scientific principles and procedure as to not have the backup parts for each and every part of KARR. They had to change KITT's programming. The base programming was already in the circuits, boards, etc. All they had to really change was the thing that was incorrect to them and remove all aspects of the original programming and put in the new commands. By all means that should have taken no more than six months.

There is also no evidence that Knight Industries created all of the parts in KITT, in fact there is some general concept that several of KITT's systems came from elsewhere.

As for any variation of the F-15 or any other plane, if there was a change in one type of programming, it wouldn't take more than a few months or weeks, if there is more than one change, it can take years to fix, specifically if it is in a non-programmable design.
WELL.......
In KvK, KARR says....It was the product of the first of a series of bold new experiments......
EXPERIMENT is the key word here....They were only trying some new ideas....KARR was a prototype....AND building the actual thing is very different than building a prototype.....
AS FOR THE PROGRAMMING....KITT had the MOST advanced A.I....an AI that we are yet to create. WE have made immense leaps in computer programming and software, back in 1980's they just couldnt create an AI in a matter of weeks...AND KITT's programming was COMPLETELY different than that of KARR's. They had to start from scratch!
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Post by knightimmortal » Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:23 am

I think you need to read the script and watch the episode a little closer, as well as understand the wording.

For starters: Devon stated that KITT is like KARR in every way, except for one: the primary programming directive. They didn't have to change his entire programming scheme, just the programming directive. THAT is not honestly more than 6 months worth of work. They didn't have to start from scratch, at all.

Second, comparing the technology of then to now in reality is not going to work here, because we still haven't created AI, period. KITT honestly wasn't even a full A.I., because he wasn't fully independent. Back in the 80's Knight Industries was able to put together KITT and KARR, so rather obviously they were ahead of us.

KARR was the product of the first of a series of bold new experiments. That means that there was more than one. Building the actual thing IS building a prototype. A prototype is the first actual thing.

Bottom line, Knight Industries didn't have to create KITT from scratch either in materials or programming. 6 months isn't unreasonable.

KI

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Post by knighttwothousand » Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:38 am

FOR starters.............I AM NOT A STARTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you say that 6 months is reasonable time period for manufacturing KITT,
Why doenst NASA launch a space shuttle every hour. IT TAKES THEM MONTHS JUST TO CHECK IF ALL PARTS ARE WORKING OR NOT...
HERE IS A QUESTION OF CREATING.
Creating is not putting parts together...It is something more.....It's a LOT more than assembling parts. They had to make the circuits and program KITT....

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Post by knightimmortal » Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:58 am

Chill.

Kindly stop yelling at me. (Using all caps is considered yelling on the internet, in the case you don't know.)

Next, just out of curiousity, how many research laboratories have you worked in? I am a computer technologist (fancy word for computer engineer who works in research and development) so I think I have a general idea of what goes on.

My father worked for NASA, via the Air Force, so I know a little bit about what goes on there, too. It doesn't take them months to check if all the parts are working or not, it takes them months to get the humans trained and prepared for their mission. It takes one month to do a full maintenance check of all systems, and that is considering that the shuttles go under extreme pressures with antiquated technology.

Read very carefully. The only difference between KARR and KITT was the primary programming. (primary function)

DEVON
You can say that again. Kitt's
primary function is to serve you...and
protect you from harm....

BONNIE
But Karr...the earlier model...had
no such programming. Instead, self
preservation was its primary
function.

MICHAEL
And that was a mistake?

DEVON
A major one.

MICHAEL
Like not telling me about all this?

BONNIE
Don't look at me...before my time.

DEVON
Michael, please...consider the
circumstances...Just as Wilton
realized he'd erred by not
programming Karr properly, his
company was almost toppled from
within...by the same people who left
you for dead on that desert highway
...In the turmoil to save your life
and build a safer car, the earlier
model was put in storage. I
thought Wilton had had it dismantled
before he died...obviously, I was
wrong.

MICHAEL
Okay...okay...I'm sorry I jumped on
you...but I still don't see why one
simple computer program makes so
much difference.

BONNIE
Michael, Kitt's primary function --
to protect human life -- is for want
of a better word -- altruistic.

DEVON
But Karr -- without that programming
-- is self-serving...almost animal-
istic in nature. And devoid as it is
of a conscience, it is potentially
dangerous. If the people who have it
misuse it, program it with information
it deems threatening, why, they could
create a menace which could quickly
exceed their control.

KARR took many years to create, because they were creating several different systems. But KITT, as KARR indicated, was the production line model. Which, in fact, he was. The circuits were already there, all that had to be changed was one part of the programming. Approximately 2%.

Creating is in fact putting parts together and making them work together. Sorry, but in the computer world, that is how it goes. All they really had to do was change the little part of programming. KITT and KARR were identical in almost every way, except for their primary function. They had to change that function. That probably took a month. (if that) then they had to test to make sure that the new function would work. One function out of hundreds. If they had to change the rest of the programming, then yes, it should have taken longer, but it was one item to make and assure that it was a safer car. The car itself was already there, if they followed the scientific experiment guidelines that most laboratories are built off of. They had to change one aspect of programming.

And one other thing: Comparing NASA to Knight Industries is a lot like comparing fool's gold to gold. Two completely different worlds.

KI

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Post by Cougar » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:58 pm

I have a question for you KI. Do you have the scripts to every episode beside your computer? I am asking because you seem to have every conversation from every episode. I am amazed you know so much.

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Post by knightimmortal » Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:23 pm

http://members.fortunecity.com/knightri ... cripts.htm

I don't think I have to tell you how much I adore Paul and the Knight Rider Archive. :D

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Post by Cougar » Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:28 pm

Ahh. So you don't have the scripts BESIDE your computer, you have them ON your computer! :D :lol:

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Post by knightimmortal » Wed Dec 24, 2003 7:14 pm

Exactamundo. :lol:

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Post by knighttwothousand » Fri Dec 26, 2003 1:15 am

Well, I cant argue with a person who is a computer programmer, But, all I can say is that creating an AI is extremely, extremely difficult...
Did you say that KITT and KARR are similar in their programming???!!!
When KITT had a conversation with Micheal for the first time, KITT was friendly and his voice warm. KARR on the other hand was cold, and didnt know much about humans, police, etc..He was pretty stupid in TDR, if you ask me...
KITT, on the other was never like KARR..He was the exact opposite...
You are forgetting something that any Knight Rider fan shouldnt...:"KITT was not just a car, or a computer programme, or even a talking car....KITT had a personality. It was more than a bunch of transistors"
If you say that KARR and KITT just differed by a few lines of programming, you are saying that KITT was KARR with a new name. WAS IT???

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Post by knightimmortal » Fri Dec 26, 2003 12:09 pm

knighttwothousand wrote:Well, I cant argue with a person who is a computer programmer, But, all I can say is that creating an AI is extremely, extremely difficult...
Then why are you? I am not just a computer programmer, but a computer programmer with a basis in AI. I think I know that creating an AI is extremely difficult, ya know?
Did you say that KITT and KARR are similar in their programming???!!!
When KITT had a conversation with Micheal for the first time, KITT was friendly and his voice warm. KARR on the other hand was cold, and didnt know much about humans, police, etc..He was pretty stupid in TDR, if you ask me...
I am finding that everything I put in the earlier posts is going right over your head. In basic programming, they even say it in the damn episode, that KITT and KARR are the same in every way, except for their primary function. Watch the episode, a little closer before debating it, it helps the soul. Their personalities stem from the same programming as their primary function. KITT didn't know a whole lot through the first season and was asking similar questions as KARR, and no, nobody asked you.
KITT, on the other was never like KARR..He was the exact opposite...
You are forgetting something that any Knight Rider fan shouldnt...:"KITT was not just a car, or a computer programme, or even a talking car....KITT had a personality. It was more than a bunch of transistors"
If you say that KARR and KITT just differed by a few lines of programming, you are saying that KITT was KARR with a new name. WAS IT???
Yes. Because KARR was just as unique, but the same. Their personalities were different because their primary programming was different. A few lines of programming did change them, as it was mentioned in the episodes, which if you had read all the other stuff that I said rather than getting your undies twisted in a bunch because I basically am telling you what the writers were trying to tell you, you would realize that. I take offense to you thinking that KARR was just an ordinary machine, and in fact, there is a reason why KARR was considered KITT's evil twin.

Now, you are just in it to argue the same point over and over again, even though it has been pointed out to you numerous times that in fact, it is possible to put KITT the machine together in a few months, as well as the personality, specifically since they are the same vehicle, with a few lines of code change to create it. It's starting to get a bit annoying. If you want to feel comfortable with your own answer, fine, but you have had the facts presented to you, and I am getting a little exhausted with presenting them over and over and over again, while you argue the same old thing again, when you have been told about the possibilities as well as the commentary from the episodes.

Are we going to continue arguing in circles?

KI

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Post by Knicks4973 » Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:35 am

One thing nobody mentioned was the fact that KITT and KARR's body's weren't from a Trans Am.

In the pilot, Devon says the following:

DEVON
It isn't paint. It's a finish
bonded into the molecular structure
of a new substance.

MICHAEL
You mean the metal?

DEVON
It isn't metal, and it isn't
Fiberglass.

So KITT and KARR were created to look like a trans am, but weren't created from a trans am.

This makes the 6 month timeline feasable. Remember, the whole purpose of Michael and KITT was one car, one driver. When they built KARR, they had no reason to build KITT.[/list]

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