WHY NOT KR TRIPS?

[lofer]

I remember in anoher 80's great show, The A-Team, in the 5th season, they make "trips" to Spain, Germany, Vietnam..., Why not in Knight Rider? Anybody knows something about this? KR in Europe fighting against french villains...?

[jup]

But, Michael and KITT HAVE done a couple trips. There was one episode where KITT has to plow through lava that's crossing the road. (I don't remember where that episode was suppose to have taken place at. But, "new" cars were very uncommon, there.)

And, there is that 'more local' trip to Mexico and back episode.

At least three other episodes where Michael went out of California to other US states.

[Army_F_Body]

Maybe as a special 2 hour epsiode or something, like a season premier or a season ender, but not as an every epsiode plot device.

[neps]

That was an episode that took place in Mexico, where they were able to drive to get there. It seems like the Foundation didn't like sending KITT anywhere that he had to fly to get to, and I guess I don't blame them. I wouldn't want to risk malfunction of the flight. Although thats an interesting question, could KITT withstand the drop from thousands of feet? I'm guessing the force of hitting the ground would be too much.

[knightshade]

Kitt probably intercepted any calls from people he'd have to fly to get to, since he hated it so much.

As for falling, I'd guess he'd probably not survive. The MBS probably could have protected the structure, but I doubt the electronics would be able to survive a jolt like that. Although, now I'm thinking about his Turbo Boost velocity, and wondering how that compares to his terminal velocity.

Anyone know how much a Trans Am weighs . . .

[Army_F_Body]

Mine weighs 3740 lbs.

But hey, KRO survived being dropped out of a plane, right?

[kido]

I would like to see them try getting kitt in to the plane.

[knightshade]

I'm revising my answer slightly. I agree that Kitt could probably not survive a 1000 ft fall. But considering that his systems had to be hardened to survive turbo boost, they must be able to handle some pretty significant forces. Being a math geek, I decided I needed to come up with some numbers and figure out how those would compare to his terminal velocity, just to see if it was possible that he would have been hardened to survive that kind of force. I came up with the following (yes, I need to find something more productive to do with my time, but I'm trying to avoid cleaning).

Kitt's Terminal Velocity

Using Army_F_Body's Trans Am as model, that's 3740 lbs (or 1696 kg).

I found the drag coefficient for an 82 trans am on a website as 0.31.

Assuming that Kitt would fall nose first (to make the drag coefficient apply) I took a wag at the surface area into the wind -- let's say approximately 4 ft x 7 ft. Using the equations I found here http://www.geocities.com/operation_risi ... is.tve.htm

Kitt would have a terminal velocity of about 181 m/s or

404 mph

I don't think it's ever been assumed that Kitt could go that fast. So presumably any hardening of his electronic systems would not protect him up to that speed.

So, me thinks, how far could he fall? Well, assuming that he could turbo boost at 100 mph (as a rough guess), and survive going through a brick wall, and working backward, he could probably survive a 325 ft fall. So, falling out of an airplane, not so good.




- Professor knightshade

(back to doing something productive)

[KnightGoddess]

I would like to see Kitt go to a foreign country and have to drive on the oppsite side of the road lol

[sarfraz]

Um, I hate to be a nitpick but the drag co-efficient of a TA is different to KITT because the of a critical factor you mentioned in your assumption, the nose. This part comes into contact with air first before the rest of the car and thus contributes greatly to drag. The profile of a standard TA nose is higher than KITT's more pointed nose. The lower profile would also theoretically produce less drag as the stagnation point (air velocity=zero) is lower down the car. I did a thesis for my engineering degree around KITT's nose, but in a nut shell you would be looking at a slightly lower drag co-efficient, more likely to be between 0.28-0.3. There was some unintended purpose behind the design of KITT's nose as the blockage caused by the front part of a TA nose, was removed and diffused to the radaitor area as KITT's nose has two large entrances for air intakes....

...I'll stop speaking automotive engineering talk now

Sarfraz

[knightshade]

...I'll stop speaking automotive engineering talk now

Sarfraz

By all means, talk automative engineering. I used 0.31 because that's what I happened to find (kind of surprised to find anything actually), but I'm happy to refine the numbers if anyone has any suggestions.

I think the biggest source of error in that whole mess would be the surface area into the wind. I'm guessing the car is about 4 feet high (to the bottom of the chassis, not to the ground) and maybe 7 feet wide, but I really have no clue. And even then, I'm not sure if that's the right way to approach it, since it's not a flat surface, but a bunch of sloped curves. Also, I would bet that Kitt weighs quite a bit more than a standard Trans Am, given that he must have been jam-packed with electronics to fit everything in. Not to mention any efforts to harden his structure and the weight of the MBS.

By all means, contribute to my insanity.

[Michael Pajaro]

It's great to see other people playing around with Knight Rider physics!

KITT gives us some idea about how far he can fall. In "A Plush Ride", Michael and KITT are racing down a steep slope towards a cliff 456 meters high (about 1500 feet). KITT tells Michael "I may survive the impact, however you will not." Becausel KITT says he "may" survive (and not "will" survive), that's probably around the threshold of where he gets into trouble.

[EdwardKnoxII]

I would like to see them try getting kitt in to the plane.

I guess that it would be just as bad as the A-Team trying to get BA on a plane.

[knightshade]

It's great to see other people playing around with Knight Rider physics!

KITT gives us some idea about how far he can fall. In "A Plush Ride", Michael and KITT are racing down a steep slope towards a cliff 456 meters high (about 1500 feet). KITT tells Michael "I may survive the impact, however you will not." Becausel KITT says he "may" survive (and not "will" survive), that's probably around the threshold of where he gets into trouble.

Okay. I can work with that. That makes his trouble threshold speed 211 mph (assuming he would fall straight down the cliff without bouncing off of it).

Which works out nicely because it's less than his terminal velocity (recalculated with sarfraz's 0.28 drag coefficient to be 425 mph), so he can't fall from an infinite height. A fact that I'm sure the writers considered carefully before writing that scene.

Enough math for one night, time to go to bed. I feel like I deserve a prize or something.

[sarfraz]

...I'll stop speaking automotive engineering talk now

Sarfraz

By all means, talk automative engineering. I used 0.31 because that's what I happened to find (kind of surprised to find anything actually), but I'm happy to refine the numbers if anyone has any suggestions.

I think the biggest source of error in that whole mess would be the surface area into the wind. I'm guessing the car is about 4 feet high (to the bottom of the chassis, not to the ground) and maybe 7 feet wide, but I really have no clue. And even then, I'm not sure if that's the right way to approach it, since it's not a flat surface, but a bunch of sloped curves. Also, I would bet that Kitt weighs quite a bit more than a standard Trans Am, given that he must have been jam-packed with electronics to fit everything in. Not to mention any efforts to harden his structure and the weight of the MBS.

By all means, contribute to my insanity.

If your calculating drag, then the surface area is a what you would see if you looked directly infront of KITT. Image drawing KITT on a flat surface of paper looking directly at it, the surface area you require for your calculation is what you see. For example look at the link below:

http://www.turboboost.netfirms.com/newkr.htm

You should see loads of pics of my concept design. The first pic right at the top (rather crude) shows a rear and front projection of the car. Now that projected frontal area (what you want) is the total area of the entire vehicle as seen from the front. This includes bits of the tyres showing underneath the car, the windscreen and and other protuding objects (mirrors).

To calculate Drag (N)= (Drag co-eff) x (Frontal area) x (density of air/2) x Velcity (to the power of 2).

* air density is taken as 1.2

argh, all this reminds me of my dissertation. Spent hours upon hours modelling airflow through the engine bay.

Mass of the object, to my knowledge doesn't contribute to how fast something falls. A bowling ball and tennis ball drop at similair rate (ignoring rough surface of tennis ball ). Its the air resistance which is why a feather drops slower.

Sarfraz

[knightshade]

Right about mass not affecting velocity in a vacuum, but the equations I found for calculating terminal velocity included mass (see the link above). The mass, drag, and air density all apparently play a role in contributing to the maximum velocity an object can reach in a non-vaccuum. Or, I just stumbled onto a site where the person didn't know what they were talking about. But that never happens on the web.

[Trekie386]

Mine weighs 3740 lbs.

But hey, KRO survived being dropped out of a plane, right?

Why is everyone assuming Kitt is being dropped out of a plane and free falling???

In Sky Knight didn't he have a PARACHUTE??

Doesn't said item increase his chance of survival??? And why is Kitt leaving the plane before it lands? Wouldn't it be safter to wait until the plane lands before making his exit?

~Beth C

[sarfraz]

Right about mass not affecting velocity in a vacuum, but the equations I found for calculating terminal velocity included mass (see the link above). The mass, drag, and air density all apparently play a role in contributing to the maximum velocity an object can reach in a non-vaccuum. Or, I just stumbled onto a site where the person didn't know what they were talking about. But that never happens on the web.

Ah, see automotive engineers are not taught about what would happen to a vehicle when its dropped from a great height

Anyway, I remember doing a science experiment back when I was a kid with different sized balls and it showed that irrelevance of size and mass, the balls would land at pretty much the same time, as the air resistance is the same. Although, at the heights I did the experiment, terminal velocity was not an issue. Looking at the link, I understand the terminal velocity equation as it uses the drag equation and Newtonian law (Force=mass x acceleration) and can see why it works. Drag is a force thus it must equal mass x acceleration.

Rearranging that equation to find velocity is second nature to me......argh please stop, we must be confusing everyone else looking at this

So did you get a frontal area of KITT???

Sarfraz

[neps]

Why is everyone assuming Kitt is being dropped out of a plane and free falling???

In Sky Knight didn't he have a PARACHUTE??

Doesn't said item increase his chance of survival??? And why is Kitt leaving the plane before it lands? Wouldn't it be safter to wait until the plane lands before making his exit?

Well I believe all this stems from my original post wondering if KITT could survive a thousand feet fall. I asked this because I was thinking worse case scenario which I'm sure FLAG would have to hypothesize about. What if KITTs chute doesn't work, I've heard that happening occasionally.. what if the plane gets destroyed in flight? okay highly unlikely but something that would have to consider when determining the risk of transporting KITT by way of flight. which lead me to the thought that if all else fails, could KITT survive the fall. I think it's brought up some pretty interesting replies which I'm enjoying learning about, and are a bit different then our norm of replies.

[Trekie386]

Well I believe all this stems from my original post wondering if KITT could survive a thousand feet fall. I asked this because I was thinking worse case scenario which I'm sure FLAG would have to hypothesize about. What if KITTs chute doesn't work, I've heard that happening occasionally.. what if the plane gets destroyed in flight? okay highly unlikely but something that would have to consider when determining the risk of transporting KITT by way of flight. which lead me to the thought that if all else fails, could KITT survive the fall. I think it's brought up some pretty interesting replies which I'm enjoying learning about, and are a bit different then our norm of replies.

Ah, I'm with you now. I think that would be something to consider once you put it that way. Getting Kitt overseas would not be easy, but what if the plane was over the water when it was attacked? Suriving the free-fall becomes a moot point if the car is going to sink underwater!

I guess the same thing applies when sending a car by ship. If the ship is attacked, then what?

Glub, glub, glub.

~Beth C

[jup]

Would we see the return of 'jet ski' KITT, in that situation?

[Trekie386]

Would we see the return of 'jet ski' KITT, in that situation?

Or the new "submarine K.I.T.T.".


~Beth C

[neps]

well I had thought about that too, about an over the water landing.

First off, is hitting water a greater force than hitting land? I thought I've heard that it was.

Secondly, how is KITTs water tightness, I remember in KR2000 that in the Chevy he only had a certain amount of air, but I'm guessing the full KITT would have more protection to both the occupant and the CPU.

Then could KITT simply drive underwater? I guess that would bring up the idea of a submarine KITT, or would he have some sort of device to thrust him to the surface so he could use "Jet SKI" mode.

Again, thats all relying on him surviving the drop in the first place.

[Michael Pajaro]

Jumping back to the topic of the international episodes (although I think the physics stuff is much more fun!), there is a practical reason why Michael and KITT didn't do much international intrigue. It's easy for show like the A Team to use some of Universal's back lots to create the illusion of being on a European street. But because Knight Rider relies on a lot of car chases and driving scenes, it's difficult to fake an entire highway. Creating 2 blocks of Europe for a gunfight is easy; creating 2 miles for a car chase is not.

[neps]

"I'm gonna have to disagree with you there Bob."

I'm not sure that can be truely said. Perhaps for the stereotypical old world cities like Prague or London, yes. But for country side and generic earth (meaning land not planet) its easily and often reproduced. I recall Austin Powers 2 I believe where Austin is driving around and remarks how London Countryside looks nothing like Southern California. I realize this is a jab to the fact that they are actually filming in California, but just trying to state that it is done often.