K.I.T.T. from an engineering perspective...

Maxwelhse · Post by **Maxwelhse** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:47 am

Hello all, I'm a long time Knight Rider fan, but a newb to this forum. Anyhow... On with my point/argument...

I read some of the faq and came across something I felt like bringing up. K.I.T.T.'s body is composed of the theoretical material tri-helical MBS (plasteele 1000), which has a yield point, aka Young's Modulus, of 570,000 psi, right? Well, as impressive as that may sound, typical cold rolled low carbon steel, that the body of nearly everyone's car is made of, has a Young's Modulus of 30,000,000 psi. In that light, K.I.T.T.'s body (if the panels are the same thickness as a typical Formula Firebird) is 98% weaker than the body of the production car it was based on. Even if the body was made of aluminum if would still be 33% as strong as the cars we (except Saturn owners I suppose) all drive everyday. Food for thought.

Dunno how many hard core physics dorks there are on this forum, but I guess I'm fixin' to find out.

theevolved1 · Post by **theevolved1** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:50 am

well I have no clue what your talking about but it sounds amazing

Maxwelhse · Post by **Maxwelhse** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:00 am

Haha...

Young's Modulus is the measure of when something is going to permanently deform. For instance, steel has what a lot of folks call a "memory". If you take a paper clip and bend it just a little it bounces back to its original form. If you bend it beyond the point at which it bounces back, you've exceeded young's modulus and permanently deformed it. If you've ever crushed a Coke can in your hand you've exceeded the 10,000,000 pound per square inch Young's Modulus for Aluminum.

This is what too many years in engineering school will do to you.

FuzzieDice · Post by **FuzzieDice** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:44 am

Well, from a story perspective, writers try to base some of their story on science but not really "true" science in all aspects. Just enough to make it sound high-tech to the average viewer or reader.

Like Star Trek's infamous "technobabble" for instance. Some of it could be true, some theoretically true, some when analyzed would end up false.

From what I gathered from the story anyway, KITT's MBS was actually some spray-on molecular bonding solution that was a special formula that no one person knew the whole formula. Three people were chosen to know only a part of the formula. One was Devon, I am sure. I forgot who the other two are. I'd imagine the other would be Bonnie. I don't know if Michael would even be the third since when they gave the car to him, he was rather computer illiterate, let alone anything else at that moment.

I think it was Wilton Knight that knew the other part maybe or maybe they told Michael later after Wilton died?

Dunno exactly how that went...

theevolved1 · Post by **theevolved1** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:01 am

Watch Goliath Parts 1 and 2 on Tuesday when Season 2 comes out and it will become clear to you who knows the other 2 parts of the formula... I dont remember their names but I do remember it was 2 old scientists.

Post by **Michael Pajaro** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:38 am

I've been out of school too long so I had to do some refrshing.

Young's Modulus is not the same as Yield Point.

The Yield Point represents the amount of force it takes beyond which a material is permanently distorted.

Young's Modulus is a ratio showing the rate of change of a material as it is being stressed.

EDIT: doing some casual browsing, I'm finding average steel yield points of 80-90 kpsi depending on the alloy (some are stronger). This would be much less than KITT's 570 kpsi.

FuzzieDice · Post by **FuzzieDice** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:59 pm

I'll be watching Goliath and all the episodes many times for sure! One week before I should recieve mine! w00t!

Maxwelhse · Post by **Maxwelhse** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:29 pm

Doh! That's what I get for mixing physics with vodka.

Thanks for the correction.

Post by **Michael Pajaro** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:49 pm

I'm one of the geeks of the board who loves talking about the real-life physics of a fantasy car, so threads like these are great to me.

Welcome to the board!

Darknight · Post by **Darknight** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:33 pm

The interesting thing about all of this is that, in order to crash through the rigid barriers as he did in the show, KITT would have had to have very high rigidity. That is, any flexing would have absorbed part of the energy necessary to penetrate other rigid objects. Yet, materials with higher yield points tend to be more flexible, like spring steel, because they are able to temporarily deform to absorb loads or shocks. This is an apparent paradox in that KITT must have had ultra-high rigidity to penetrate reinforced concrete and also to obliterate KARR as he did, but he never seemed to suffer stress cracks or anything like that, except when doused with some MBS neutralizer. Perhaps the MBS was really a fusion of metallic and ceramic properties, being both rigid and resistant to deformation.

Thoughts anyone?
DK

P.S. I'm the other geek who likes to consider the real-life physics of a fantasy car, which is becoming a little more feasible all the while...

cloudkitt · Post by **cloudkitt** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:49 pm

Well he would have had to have unbelieveably high rigidity because the problem with an invincible car is, if you hit an object you CAN'T penetrate, the driver will die as the car as ABSOLUTELY no give. So they had to be sure that KITT would always go THROUGH obstacles.

Maxwelhse · Post by **Maxwelhse** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:42 pm

Completely off the cuff here...

How many times did KITT smash through an extremely hard object without being air born? If the wheels are off of the ground at the time of impact perhaps the suspension was designed to act as a tuning fork to dampen the blow?

HondaSiR · Post by **HondaSiR** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:46 pm

Maxwelhse wrote:How many times did KITT smash through an extremely hard object without being air born?

I have no idea how many times KITT has done that, but I remember him smashing through a mountain once in order to see the gems/treasure inside (which IIRC wasn't really that valuable). I can't remember the episode name though.

KARR_Knight · Post by **KARR_Knight** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:55 pm

One thing that i dont get is if only 3 people know one part of the MBS formula, how was it made? Someone had to know all 3 parts to make it work & test it & assign one part to each person.

theevolved1 · Post by **theevolved1** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:08 am

wilton knight?

Maxwelhse · Post by **Maxwelhse** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:04 am

Your mama?

j/k

FuzzieDice · Post by **FuzzieDice** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:07 pm

Remember when KITT was talking about something of this effect of invincibility in Trust Doesn't Rust. In it, he talked about Zeno's Paradox.

Post by **Michael Pajaro** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:29 pm

Maxwelhse wrote:If the wheels are off of the ground at the time of impact perhaps the suspension was designed to act as a tuning fork to dampen the blow?

My hat's off to you sir...

Although I'm sure the writers never thought about that during the show, and I doubt it could ever work in real life, the idea behind it is brilliant (in a ridiculous sort of way!)

Maxwelhse · Post by **Maxwelhse** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:49 pm

Ridiculous is what I do best... I guess thanks for the compliment!

Darknight · Post by **Darknight** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:56 pm

The frame would be the tuning fork, which would, in theory, vibrate upon impact with another object. The tires, wheels and suspension would be like the hand that stops the resonation of the tuning fork after it has been struck.

I understood what you meant, though. Strange, isn't it, that in the show KITT usually hit hard objects in mid-air? I have always assumed that it is due to Turboboost, but I just thought of another, more far-fetched idea.

If you hit a wall or something while on the ground, the wall has only three ways to break. The wall material may go above you and to both sides as you penetrate, but it may not go beneath you. By striking objects in mid-air, KITT had four directions for broken material to pass around him as he went through. This is, of course, relative motion, since the objects usually remain fairly stationary, and KITT moves in relation to them.

Also, say you want to burst through a concrete wall. The strongest portion of the wall is the closest to the ground for several reasons which I won't mention right now. This enabled him to penetrate the relatively weaker areas, thus saving much damage to his "Alpha" circuit, haha.

Wasn't that the one which most frequently gave him trouble from jarring impacts?

DK

FuzzieDice · Post by **FuzzieDice** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:37 pm

I thought his Alpha Circuit was the one that gave him trouble if he tried to tow a car.

Darknight · Post by **Darknight** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:35 pm

Yes, I believe you are right. Now what's the name of the circuit that makes him play strange music when shocked by an obscenely huge amount of electricity?

FuzzieDice · Post by **FuzzieDice** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:30 am

I am not sure on that one, but I know he "gets off" on (pardon the expression) microjamming electric power generators. (like in the 1st season episode where that accountant was framed for murder - too lazy/tired to think of the ep name). Michael was in trouble and he got him but Michael was like "What took you so long" and KITT told him "I came as quickly as I could."

Sorry, sick mind

neps, I understand if you want to delete this post and chastize me.

But I tried not to get too graphic here and used normal words. HOpe this was ok.

It was just too funny when I saw that in the episode.

LadyV2000 · Post by **LadyV2000** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:42 pm

FuzzieDice wrote:I am not sure on that one, but I know he "gets off" on (pardon the expression) microjamming electric power generators. (like in the 1st season episode where that accountant was framed for murder - too lazy/tired to think of the ep name). Michael was in trouble and he got him but Michael was like "What took you so long" and KITT told him "I came as quickly as I could."

Sorry, sick mind neps, I understand if you want to delete this post and chastize me.

But I tried not to get too graphic here and used normal words. HOpe this was ok. It was just too funny when I saw that in the episode.

LOL! That's from Final Verdict. It's the part when Michael disguises himself as the electrician. I think KITT something to the degree of "...the sensation is quite intoxicating."

FuzzieDice · Post by **FuzzieDice** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:18 pm

Yeah, that was the one.

I can just see KITT on his day off setting near a power generator.... Uh oh....

K.I.T.T. from an engineering perspective...

K.I.T.T. from an engineering perspective...

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