KARR question

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KARR question

Post by KnightAvenger77 » Tue Sep 09, 2003 3:18 pm

why coulnt they just fix KARRS programming? so that he DID stand for the preservation of Human programming? in KILLERKITT that guy changed KITT to kill micheal, coundt they have done that to KARR?

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Post by neps » Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:06 pm

They didn't do it, because KARR was a prototype. Many times prototypes are built and flaws are found, but instead of simply fixing what they know is wrong, they just make a new one. Its better to make a new one cause you can learn from your mistakes, and it avoids other potential flaws from peaking their heads. The more often you build something, the better it becomes.

And if they did fix it, where would we be without our exciting episodes? :D

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Post by Miked » Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:30 pm

I agree. We're nitpicking things again, but it would make sense to build a second car.

In developing any car from scratch, the actual cost of building the first car is a fraction of the whole cost, compared to R&D.
It also stands to reason that KITT would have numerous small improvements over KARR.
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Here's what I can't reconcile, though:
Pre-production mules at car companies are usually used for things like durability tests, crash tests, etc.

Now, how many times have we seen KITT get in trouble?
And then we hear KITT, or Bonnie, or April say "but the _______ may not be able to withstand that kind of force!"

If they had KARR's nearly-identical chassis laying around, MBS and all, then why not subject it to a bunch of extreme tests and answer some of these questions once and for all?

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Fiction and reality collide yet again.

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:42 pm

Laboratory tests and real-life tests are very different things.

It's one thing to establish the stress tolerance of a chassis in a lab, but it's entirely different to predict what would happen in a head-on collision with a truck, or an incoming missile.

Some things you can only learn out in the field.

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Post by Rockatteer » Tue Sep 09, 2003 8:57 pm

I think the real answer here is, if they had done that then Kitt wouldn’t have an evil twin to battle.

8) :lol: 8)


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Post by Ghost-Unmade » Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:47 pm

Too remember they were SUPPOSED to dismantle KARR (Devon and Wilton both thought that was what had happened)

I think KARR started going off the deep end and Wilton and Devon said "whoa we can't let THIS thing run around, he'll kill someone. Tear it down let's build another one"

And then some moron forgot to dismantle KARR. ;)

oops

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Post by Rockatteer » Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:50 pm

Its always the way!

if you want something done right....do it yourself!!

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Post by Miked » Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:32 am

Aaahhh . . .

"Remember that indestructible, killer car you gave me to dismantle? Well, I just forgot to dismantle it."

Happens all the time.

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Post by Katt » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:39 am

Rockatteer wrote:I think the real answer here is, if they had done that then Kitt wouldn’t have an evil twin to battle.

8) :lol: 8)


:dash:


Well, also, if Karr had been just reprogrammed, then Kitt probably wouldn't of existed in the first place, cause they'd then have no reason to build another car. ;)

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Post by tkr9 » Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:29 am

I hope the original twit that managed to programme a pyscho car was duly sacked and sent for some deep psychoanalysis. They should do psychological profiling for all those Foundation people. Some prats programmed a mad car, Garth was a complete megolamniac (perhaps no one let him join in at school), his mother was a simpering poisoner (proably Wilton spent too much time with his Foundation and not her), Garth's sister was downright unreasonable, and the entire Foundation are ALWAYS whinging about costs and never about truth and justice, the scientists are always trying to get Devon for his MBS recipe and the financiers and lawyers who deal with foundation money are always trying to nick it (that from the episode with the magic guy Bonnie falls for, even though he's about a foot shorter than her, and is the only man alive apart from Governor Arnie who looks awful in a tux).

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Post by Victory Red » Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:31 am

I remember seeing a website based on FAN FIC that the writer told a story about KARR being reprogrammed and now the two (KITT & KARR) fight crime together. Interesting idea.

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Post by Ghost-Unmade » Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:27 am

tkr9 wrote:I hope the original twit that managed to programme a pyscho car was duly sacked and sent for some deep psychoanalysis. They should do psychological profiling for all those Foundation people. Some prats programmed a mad car, Garth was a complete megolamniac (perhaps no one let him join in at school), his mother was a simpering poisoner (proably Wilton spent too much time with his Foundation and not her), Garth's sister was downright unreasonable, and the entire Foundation are ALWAYS whinging about costs and never about truth and justice, the scientists are always trying to get Devon for his MBS recipe and the financiers and lawyers who deal with foundation money are always trying to nick it (that from the episode with the magic guy Bonnie falls for, even though he's about a foot shorter than her, and is the only man alive apart from Governor Arnie who looks awful in a tux).


Welcome to the world of big money. Any enterprise the size of the foundation inevitably deals with gready unreasonable people, to say nothing of confounding politics, and downright schemers. Although I must admit the Knight family itself seems downright disfunctional!

And as far as psychoanalyzing the guy who programmed KARR, well I don't think anyone really knew it would turn out that way. A computer of that level of sophistication had never been tried before, and well if you're thinking about it as a computer inside a car, whose function is to make speed calculations, gauge distances for turbo boost etc. well then it sorta makes sense that the computer's fuction would primarily be protect to protect the car. Unfortunately KARR turned out to be an Artificially Intellegent computer, who made no distinction between himself and his body, and adopted self-survival as a philosophy for his entire existance.

In short, KARR was programmed as though he was a regular computer, when he was in fact an "AI" computer. There turned out to be a real difference.

In other words,

oops

Ghost

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Post by knightimmortal » Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:53 pm

Ghost, you are on the right track with your statements, just not quite at the station. :)

KARR was programmed as an AI would. (And that psycho who programmed KARR, was most likely Wilton, who had laid out the design for him.) But KARR was programmed with a different level of focus.

Take a look at us human beings. We all like to think that we are put here for the purposes of survival. Some work to make other's lives better. Others just work for themselves, but in the end, we are all trying to survive. We just take different programming paths to get there.

KARR had one programming path. KITT had another. KARR's had a detrimental effect that grew after he had been discarded and left to be dismantled. (Don't know about you, but that would tick me off...) He wasn't what Wilton had envisioned, and for that, he got a bit of a bad hand that only made the situation worse.

Oh, and if I may, at least three fic series I remember at this point, have KARR's programming Shadows of the Knight (My series.) Gryph's Fire and Ice. And to some point, TKR: Proteus by Ladywolf. :)

(I'd provide links, but it seems like I am having some browser difficulties right now.)

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Person who programmed KARR should be sacked

Post by KI2000PA » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:33 pm

tkr9

Ummmm.....there is a problem with "sacking" the person who programmed KARR, Wilton Knight couldn't have fired himself for he was the one who programmed KARR. Devon says "Just as Wilton realized he had made a mistake by not programming KARR properly, his company was virtually toppled from within, by the very same people who left you for dead on that desert highway." Sound familiar?

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knightimmortal, you can correct me if I misquoted Devon but I believe my quote is letter perfect

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Post by tkr9 » Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:37 pm

I stand corrected.

Mind you Wilton never struck me as entirely sane. His foundation was brilliant, but if HE programmed KITT, chose Michael almost overnight, and his family are so, well, to put it nicely, a little abnormal (Garth and Garth's mum etc) then maybe that explains alot...

Nah, he was great. Kitt's great so how could Wilton be anything else.

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Post by tkr9 » Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:38 pm

I meant if 'HE programmed KARR'. Sorry. brain and me not communicating at the mo...

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Post by KI2000PA » Thu Sep 11, 2003 5:23 pm

tkr9

In that same episode I quoted from earlier, Devon makes references to KITT's construction as well, and he clearly states "As we struggled to save your life and I attempted to build a safer car, the earlier model was put in storage. I thought Wilton had had it dismantled before he died, but I was wrong." So Devon, in effect built KITT along with Dr. Romano, Dr. Von Voorman, Dr. Vreeland and "Bob". And got the ball rolling as well.

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Post by IceKnight » Thu Sep 11, 2003 8:41 pm

This debate has been sparked before. A few things to note...
1. Wilton spent his entire fortune pursuing the development, construction, and activation of KARR. Finding out that a grave mistake was made was insignificant to the fact that he spent the last decade or more of his life pursuing the goal of completing it. We (members of the board) determined that Wilton, although regretful of the mistake, didn't have the heart to destroy something he worked so hard at. Would you dismantle/destroy something you had invested so much (monetarily, physically, and emotionally) in if you had an alternative (deactivate and store for possible future study or correction)?
2. Building KITT gave Knight Industries a chance for two things: a second chance, and improvements in technology not necessarily available before KARR was completed.
3. Did we ever determine if Bonnie was involved in KITT's construction, already knowing she wasn't involved in KARR's?

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Post by Ghost-Unmade » Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:18 am

Hmm would I destroy something I worked so hard on?

No, I'd FIX THE PROGRAMMING!!!! :D

Sorry couldn't resist.

And also about finding Michael overnight, Devon also stated in KR2000; "when we saved your life it was no random choice, Michael. From the very begining we saw something in you." That sort of implies that they had been watching Michael Long for a while.

Now I promise to stop picking on tkr9 ;)

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Post by tkr9 » Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:36 pm

You're the only one to say that! *Gives hug*

I still maintain there had to be something dodgy about Wilton... I'll just go now... *Runs away*

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Post by knightimmortal » Fri Sep 12, 2003 2:20 pm

Well, maybe you are right, tkr9.

Wilton did have his moments of scariness.

1) He had a bit of a godlike complex creating a life out of nothing. (creating AI)

2) He sort of gave Michael his new life and his new face without Michael's permission. (Ok, so Michael would have most likely died, but did Michael really want his life saved?)

3) I'm surprised that he didn't reprogram KARR when it looked like it was going wrong, after all, if you don't like one of your children, just send them back to be lobotomized and start again, right? (Probably the same reason why they didn't dismantle him, either, if you don't like your kids, kill them and start again.)

4) He chose what profession Michael would have to continue with.

So, yeah, I guess all geniuses have their mad streaks in them.

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Post by Rockatteer » Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:00 am

So, yeah, I guess all geniuses have their mad streaks in them.


*slaps forehead*

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Post by tkr9 » Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:05 pm

Erm...

:(

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