The perfect Engine for my KITT Project

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Victory Red
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The perfect Engine for my KITT Project

Post by Victory Red » Sun Aug 31, 2003 7:25 pm

Well I have been considering what engine I will swap out for the old 305. I was thinking up until today of going bigger block. But, NAWWWW!

I think for sure that I am going to go with a 92+3.8LV6 Supercharged with a controlled Turbo.

I can obtain the 3800 Series 2 Supercharged Engine from around here, for about $2500 and it will come with the wiring harness. I will hunt down a Garrett T3/T4 Hybrid Turbo and then mount it to the Factory GM passengers side Manifold from an 88 GTA Turbo TA w/3.8L Turbo Engine. I will hook the vacumn actuated waste gate to an electronic controlled valve that I can open or close by pressing a switch in the cockpit. That way I can turn on the Turbo so to speak.

The GM SC Engine runs about 6-9 PSI of Boost. Adding the Turbo will add another 6-9 PSI of Boost. That will give me a total of 12-18 PSI of Boost. And it is well withing the 3800's safey parameters before Detination. I will also run an oversized Intercooler to keep the detination down and I may have to consider water injection when turning on the Turbo.

With this kind of set up My KARR will be running around 280HP-400HP. And looking real real real good and Futuristic. That is what a Knight Rider should have under its hood.

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Post by Army_F_Body » Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:24 pm

With this kind of set up My KARR will be running around 280HP-400HP
Sounds a little over optimistic, but if it works let me know :D !

The boys (and maybe some girls, too) at http://www.FirebirdV6.com have been trying to break the 280 HP barrier for a while. Check out their third gen section on the message board. I know a guy there who swaped his 2.8L V6 for a 3.4L V6 out of a late model Camaro.

He's had some problems getting it to run, but he did get it to eventually. Now he's running into the smog issue. I know when I was staioned in Utah (they have no emission requirements) I had a nice 350 lined up from a 79 Stingray to install in my Firebird. Was gonna cut the cat and run a set headers on it but one of the mechanics in my unit made the point of when we got back home to California it would not pass smog.

By the way you mentioned it has a 305. What type of induction are you running? Crossfire or Throttle body?
KITT project is on again!

Currently working on: brand new stock tan interior, almost done!

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Post by Victory Red » Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:00 pm

Sounds a little over optimistic, but if it works let me know
Not at all really. I was part of a team that was installing the same engine and supercharger in a 3rd generation Cavalier. I already have all of the fact info. Our biggest problem was mounting. But this will not be an issue in the TA.

3800 Series II V6 with Eaton SuperCharger = 240HP/280lbs tq stock.
Modified Computer from V6SC.com = +20HP
Underdrive Pully for SC = +40HP
SUBTOTAL= 300HP

T3/T4 Garret Turbo = +6PSI-9PSI of Boost = up to 100HP

For fun I will install my ZEX N2O Kit = +55HP

THere are the numbers. I know what I am talking about. Trust me. I ran a performance Garage for 2 years. I worked on the Cavalier project for the last 9 months until I found other employment.
By the way you mentioned it has a 305. What type of induction are you running? Crossfire or Throttle body?
At this moment I do not have a 3rd Gen TA. I used to own several 82-84's back about 7 years ago. Ohh man does that seem like a long time ago. But Next Spring I will be buying one and it has to be an 82-84. I would prefer an 84 TA Loaded with the proper interior etc. I am going to buy the perfect one for me and what I want to do to it. I will wait until I find it for the right price, even if it takes longer then next Spring.

CYAL8R

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Post by Army_F_Body » Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:52 pm

Sounds like a cool project. Be sure you let us know how your progressing. I may ditch my LT5 plan for yours from the sound of it :).
KITT project is on again!

Currently working on: brand new stock tan interior, almost done!

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Post by Victory Red » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:52 am

Army_F_Body wrote:Sounds like a cool project. Be sure you let us know how your progressing. I may ditch my LT5 plan for yours from the sound of it :).
The V8 is a sweet engine. But they are inefficient. The V6 SC engine is almost as powerfull and it is lighter.

To be honest I could never make the Torque Curve with a V6 that a V8 would give. But the Turbo will help the Supercharger get close. And to have an actual working Turbo Boost will be all the cooler.

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Post by Miked » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:08 am

For the money & work the turbo'd V-6 will take, I'd just get a decent V-8.
It's not unique or interesting, but everybody uses them for good reason.

There are great smaller engines out there. I admire some of these hot V-6s that can kick my V-8's a**.
But if it were my own car, I couldn't get over the gut-feeling that it should have a V-8.

Just my two cents.

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Post by Victory Red » Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:59 am

Mike I hear where you are coming from.

But the Beast that I am building is two-fold. A 3800 V6 with a Supercharger with a Garrett T4 Turbo added on top of that.

As for the work? It drops right in and the harness will even plug right into the THM700R4 Tranny. The mounts are the same for the 3.8 as a 305/350 cause it is the same block. The Tranny will mount directly tothe block as well. I will have to get into some custom Rad hose and Intake track but nothing major. These are all GM Parts. How much easier could this be? I know it would be real easy to drop in a V8 but it will never look as nice.

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Post by Miked » Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:02 pm

Do you already have this forced-induction V-6 you're planning?
That sounds expensive.

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Post by aussieknight » Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:16 pm

It ALL sounds expensive!! What company do you run again, Vic? When do I start?
"What do you mean, 'get'? You ARE in big trouble." -KITT, Not a Drop to Drink.

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Post by Victory Red » Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:26 pm

The cost is not that bad at all really.

Around here you can purchase a used 3800 V6 with Supercharger and harness and computer for only about $2500-$3000. And it will come with around 100K KMS on it. Not bad at all.

The turbo and all of the extra junk will start to cost you. Turbo, Alternator, brakets and hoses.

But the cost of this killer set-up will only be around $4000 CDN. That equals $2900 USD and only 1800#s UKD.

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Post by MetalGod » Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:30 am

8) Greetings ALL...I've watched this site for ages...You are truly all TKR....

I grew up with this show, and have always been a third gen firebird fanatic.

This post actually rocks!! Victory RED is posting in the true spirit of the series..I applaud the imagination!

Some significant issues arise however, and I would like to give a little advice if I may....

The GM series III 3800 supercharged V6 is essentially a front wheel drive powertrain whereas all firebirds are rear wheel drive. Technically, it would be possible to turn the engine around and strap a conventional transmission onto it effectively making the thing a rear wheel drive powertrain. However, there are certain 'plumbing nightmares' that would need to be addressed... These are cost and developmentally prohibitive changes...

Next: Combining a turbocharger with a supercharged engine [particularly a bone stock one] is a near impossibility due to [once again] plumbing, electronics, and detonation.

The turbocharged GTA that Pontiac built was a 1989 Turbo TA[ An Indy 500 Pace Car]. The powertrain was a modified Buick Grand National motor and transmission with a 3.8 litre turbocharged and intercooled V-6--already configured to rear wheel drive. The engine size was the same, but this was effectively a 'series one' motor... [well, not really, since the engine has existed for about forty years!] Problem was, the heads and exhaust had to be modified to fit the narrow engine bay of the firebird....

So....The advice would be to buy one of the new GM crate 350 V8 motors...These fit well into the third gen engine bays and run really strong. They are already built with hi performance internals, warranty, and THAT sound. They are well priced. ARMY has a car he can be proud of...This is a car worthy of the $4000 it would cost for the upgrade.

Although KITT was built with a high tech turbine motor, the show is 20 years old. The technology being used in these crate motors is 21st century!! What better way to accentuate your 1980's firebird than to dress it up with some 21st century V8 technology!!

Thanks for listening....Next post will actually be related to the show!!!

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Post by Victory Red » Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:54 pm

Sweet someone that has mechanical knowledge like myself. Not saying no else has, just this person has expressed it.

Yes there would be some issues here with the 3800. True enough, nut anything is possable.

Since I have been talking to a person about buying thier TA. I have been thinking of another idea that I have had mulling around in my head.

350cu Twin Turbo w/N2O Assist. Whaahaha. I love this idea even better then the first. And it has to be a TPI Engine though.

If not then I would go with a ZZ4 or ZZ3 engine from GM. With a little tweeking these engine are monsters.

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Post by Miked » Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:05 am

To me, the twin-turbo 350 sounds better than the V-6 idea.

However, personally, I'd supercharge any motor before turbo-ing one.
Yes, turbos can produce killer numbers, and often more power than a supercharger setup.

But the characteristics of a turbo'd motor? Crap.
Turbo-lag making it a turd below a certain RPM. Throttle-response is equally dead until it spools up. Then, IF you leave your foot in it long enough, the power comes up and hits you over the head at a high RPM.

Give me a supercharged motor. Not as high of a horsepower number to write on the fender, but more fun to drive.

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Post by Michael SS-R » Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:41 pm

I personally love Turbocharged engines, they are technically the most efficient engines as they reuse the heat/energy created from the engine's exhaust gasses while a Supercharger will sometimes take up to 50-60 horsepower for the engine to run and they want to pull the crankshaft up through the block due to all the stress placed on the crank pulley.

I think I am going to try and pick up an 89 Trans Am GTA that came with the 3.8 liter Turbocharged V6. They are the quickest factory Trans Am ever with a 4.6 0-60 sprint one of them whipped my 98 LS1
V8 6 speed trans am in the 1/4 mile one time at the track. Mabye by about a carlength because of its Turbo boosted launches by holding the brake down and revving the engine to build up to 10psi of Boost off the start line. That car had no turbo lag on those launches lol..


If you want to put the Grand National/89 Turbo Trans Am engine in it all you need is a new crossmember for the frame, custom headers or find 89 Turbo Trans Am headers, they are out there....

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Post by Army_F_Body » Wed Sep 10, 2003 12:14 am

ARMY has a car he can be proud of...This is a car worthy of the $4000 it would cost for the upgrade.
Thanks for the kind words Metalgod!

I plan on someday adding an LT5 vette 350, but that's to far off to think about :) !

If the GN 3.8s were more plentifull, I agree that that engine would be awesome to add to your project Kitt.
KITT project is on again!

Currently working on: brand new stock tan interior, almost done!

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