KR...Is It Possible?

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KR...Is It Possible?

Post by Supersonic Lorry » Tue Jul 01, 2003 7:35 pm

Hi folks,
I understand fully why Neil locked my previous thread entitled 'Fact or Fiction'. I understand why it was necessary.

There were some interesting comments in the last post where we discussed the possibility of a real life car with intelligence and superior capabilities. If anyone wants to continue this debate, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I have one other thing to say even though I probably shouldn't. People who are familiar with the 'Fact or Fiction' topic will know what I am on about. I won't name names because it isn't fair. Okay, can I politely ask people not to turn my topic into a personal debate. If-like on the last topic-people have a problem, please take it to the Private Messages forum. That is the place for personal debates, in my opinion. I personally would never use someone else's forum to air my grievances against a fellow user. I can't believe how my last topic turned from an interesting debate about AI to a grudge match.

Anyway, I want to talk about the possibilities of a real life K.I.T.T. I believe we only tipped the tip of the iceberg in the 'Fact or Fiction' topic. I'd love to continue it.

Neil, if I am speaking out of turn, then I apologize. I am not trying to order people around. I just am diplomatically trying to ensure this post doesn't become a slanging match. If I am speaking out of turn, please PM me.

Supersonic Lorry

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Post by nivek » Tue Jul 01, 2003 7:44 pm

Hi there supersonic lorry i think that almost evey thing that kitt can do in the show can be done the parts that i don't is the AI and the shell of the car and the car being able to jump like it does and take trun at that high of speeds

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Post by KITT » Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:07 pm

i wanted to comment on some points in that thread as well...
when mike was talking about the osbournes episode with ozzy aruging with the car. that was so hilarious. i saw that and died laughing. (not literally..otherwise i wouldn't be typing this.)
ozzy: "shut the f up!"
car: "pardon me?"

KITT
Lady: "I bet you're tall, dark, and handsome."
KITT: "I'm definitely dark and handsome, I'm only tall when I'm climbing a steep incline."
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Post by SPEEDBREAKER » Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:38 pm

I wish I saw that. Do you know when they will play that again?
And I see why the thred was closed.I got a link back in it to see what haponed to it.

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Post by Darknight » Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:01 pm

That's interesting, nivek. I think the MBS, the turboboost and his super speeds are some of the most doable features of KITT. I think it's possible to have AI that reminds one of KITT, but not AI totally on his level. Even so, remember that KITT isn't really full AI. KARR was closer to that, but without a profound appreciation for human life. But, on second thought, KARR was also more animalistic in nature. I fear the potential implications that that makes about humans (that we're nothing more than highly advanced, selfish beasts), but I don't really believe that deep down. We humans have the ability to choose what we value, and that's a huge difference.

DK

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Post by aussieknight » Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:19 pm

I reckon that KARR returns in the new movie. We all saw him survive (partially) at the end of KITT vS KARR. What a perfect opening. Who knows what he'd be installed into. As for KITT not being "full" AI, what's that about? AI stands for Artificial Intelligence, which is what they both had. Whether one looked after itself or human life (the first law of robotics, Asimov), doesn't apply, I reckon. And unfortunately, our human nature is to choose what WE value over others, and far too often.
"What do you mean, 'get'? You ARE in big trouble." -KITT, Not a Drop to Drink.

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Post by KalEl » Fri Jul 04, 2003 2:23 am

It would be nice to think that a car like K.I.T.T. would someday be a reality, but one thing that worries me is not so much AI but AS: artificial sentience. That's what the whole Terminator universe is about. Once the machines realize that they are more intelligent than humans, what's to stop them from taking over the world?

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Post by Crusing » Fri Jul 04, 2003 6:53 pm

See what happened in Terminator was that they hooked up Skynet's computer to all types of military bases and defense systems. Skynet was trusted to run it all.

As you said once the machines figured out how smart they are, the machines used all the military defense systems against humans and launched missiles to terminate humans so we do not fight back.

If we do make a AI like KITT, I hope we do not hook it up to every thing and take some time to learn about AI's before we trust them like how KITT was trusted in the show.

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Post by Darknight » Sat Jul 05, 2003 1:37 am

KITT was/is not full AI, in the sense of being comparable to humans. He couldn't change his own programming, he didn't have a choice about his life's purpose - that was decided by the foundation - and while FLAG obviously loved him, they never put him on the same level as humans...not even Bonnie, his "mother figure."

Had KITT been an AI comparable to humans, forcing him to work for the foundation would be nothing short of slavery. But, again, he loved his job because he was programmed that way. He was made to be a tool.

He was capable of some forms of creativity, you might say, but only in imitation of human creativity. That is, he imitated human jokes, human singing, and played human invented games with Michael and himself. He couldn't compose a decent song, or an original joke, or make up a game. He was instead wired for the computing of "facts" as he observed them. He could make only rudimentary interpretations of those facts.

DK

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Sat Jul 05, 2003 3:57 am

Darknight, it sounds like you're saying that creativity and emotion are necessary for intelligence. I disagree. You might need to have intelligence to be creative, but you don't need to be creative to be intelligent.

Intelligence, whether artificial or natural, is the ability to reason, to solve problems, to apply knowledge to specific situations. KITT was able to do all those things, and do them very well. So I would say KITT was absolutely a true and full Artificially Intelligent entity, beyond any shadow of a doubt.

KITT did lack emotion, so in that sense I agree with you that he was not comparable to humans. But I'd argue that has nothing to do with intelligence.
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Post by SPEEDBREAKER » Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:59 am

Some times K.I.T.T. could not think for himself. Like the time he was in the car crusher.Not programed with the proper information for that situation.But he did have the ability to learn.He learned he did not want to be in the acid toxic waste.Anyway creativity is a big part of being self aware. Not so much in putting brush to canvas but in assessing situations and dealing with them is an art in it self.Like how not or what not to talk about. But what do I know. I just like KNIGHT RIDER. :roll:

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Post by Rockatteer » Sat Jul 05, 2003 8:21 am

KITT was/is not full AI, in the sense of being comparable to humans. He couldn't change his own programming


I think the line "Kitt was more than the sum of his parts" sums it up nicely.

The fact is that the Kitt we started off with was a much different Kitt to the one we finished with.

"He" learned new things and grew beyond his original programming.
True he couldn't change his basic "reason for being" programming....but neither can most humans.

The question is what is AI...is it a machine imatating human thought? what about if the machine is only imatating some sort of lower animal which only consists of instinctive reactions... Do we still consider that AI?

I think theres really only one person who can give us a professional answer to this question....and she left the board.

I think the writers kind of screwed up Kitt in some ways, becasue they never really wrote him as a computer.... they just kinda went with :Owh this car can talk and drive own its own" and then wrote Kitt as a human...which kinda makes it hard to work out if Kitt was AI or if its just a hi-tech car that can talk and drive itself.

Does that make sense...it's kinda hard to explain what I mean.
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Post by KalEl » Sat Jul 05, 2003 2:53 pm

Darknight wrote:Had KITT been an AI comparable to humans, forcing him to work for the foundation would be nothing short of slavery. But, again, he loved his job because he was programmed that way. He was made to be a tool.
DK

Take a look at K.A.R.R. While we don't know much about his time working for FLAG, we do know that they found it necessary to shut him down and order his destruction. Once reactivated, his only goal was to survive. He wasn't happy with FLAG and would never go back to work for them again. I know self preservation was his primary programming, but at one time he worked as an operative for FLAG and took orders from Wilton as if he were a regular employee. Once he realized that the "humans" were not happy with his programming he took it upon himself to do what he thought best(AI), not what the humans thought best. And of course when he was saved and reactivated both times(Trust Doesn't Rust & K.I.T.T. vs K.A.R.R.), he was nice to the humans who saved him, only because they saved him. Once he realized they were useless to him, he got rid of them. Much like Skynet eliminated the humans on Judgement Day, I believe K.A.R.R. would be just as content in a world without people. The only difference between Skynet and K.A.R.R. is that Skynet is advanced enough to have repair droids, while K.A.R.R. still needs a human technician when his systems begin to break down. I do believe that given time, K.A.R.R. could tap into govornmental computers and figure out a way to repair himself without the need for a human technician.

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Post by Darknight » Sat Jul 05, 2003 3:02 pm

I'm not saying that creativity is absolutely positively necessary for intelligence, but generally, intelligence at the average human level is capable of some basic inventiveness. In fact, even most who are considered mentally impaired, or "retarded" can show stunning creativity at times. I say that to say this - creativity is not a requisite for intelligence, but it is a good indicator of intelligence. A trully self-aware being usually has some desire for personal expression, and an ability to do that through a variety of means. KITT couldn't sing worth a dime, and besides that, he was just imitating what he heard, but he could anharmonically synthesize nearly anything. He couldn't draw or paint, but he could pop up with a diagram of almost anything. He couldn't invent a game, but he could play the ones loaded in his memory. I'm not saying that all intelligent individuals must invent games, write songs, and do paintings, but most of us could if we had to. We have no indication that KITT had those abilities. His abilities were designed by his creators to perform certain tasks - the ones designated by the foundation.

Now, I've never said that KITT wasn't intelligent at all - he was - but he wasn't on the same level as humans, or even close to it. Michael constantly came up with schemes to catch the crooks that never occurred to KITT, because to a great extent, it takes creative approaches to solve problems. KITT would instead take the predictable, most "logical" route 99.9% of the time.

Besides that, it's an abominable thought to have a fully self-aware being held against its will to do the bidding of others, with no hope of betterment....but then again, KITT wasn't fully self-aware, and he never considered doing anything different, because he couldn't. He didn't have the capability to truly consider leaving the foundation, because they didn't allow him that option. Fully intelligent, self-aware beings at least have the ability to try to improve or change their lot in life, but KITT didn't.

Also, at some point (or several points) in life, we have the opportunity to change our belief system. That was never an option for KITT either, so while KITT did have some intelligence, it wasn't "full," as I personally define full intelligence, being that humans are the most intelligent beings in the universe, that we know of, short of God, and KITT was not as smart as an average human. But then again, I believe that God made us, and we're definitely not as smart as Him, so why should anything we make be as smart as us?

About KARR, I've pretty well always said he was a more accurate reflection of humanity in many ways, even though not a very flattering one. He definitely had more freedom programmed into him than KITT did.

DK

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Post by cloudkitt » Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:44 pm

Michael Pajaro wrote:KITT did lack emotion, so in that sense I agree with you that he was not comparable to humans. But I'd argue that has nothing to do with intelligence.


Well...I know they said that KITT didn't have emotions, and that KITT said it to. But he does. His voice tone changes, and you could hurt his pride.

I don't think KITT was on the same level as humans in all respects but in many. But I can assure you William Daniels does in all :lol:
Michael: "KITT! Where are ya?!"
K.I.T.T.: "I'm in your parking space, Michael, where else would I be?"

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Post by nivek » Sun Jul 06, 2003 8:25 pm

you have a point cloudkitt. I need to find another word then point i am getting i don't know but point just has to go.

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