Good Ford help us all...

Archive for discussions from 2003. Please post new discussions in the appropriate forum.

Moderators: Matthew, neps, Michael Pajaro

User avatar
TT Snim
Operative
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Crazy-ville
Contact:

Good Ford help us all...

Post by TT Snim » Thu Apr 24, 2003 1:44 am

http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Car_20pe ... 1043626600
(Quote)
"Hi, Boss?... I may be a bit late this morning. You see, my car's in heat and the neighbor's car is, well..."
(End Quote)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :oops: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I had NOTHING to do with this. And yes, I need more sleep.

User avatar
Knight2000
FLAG Recruit
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: UK

Post by Knight2000 » Thu Apr 24, 2003 6:05 am

That would be just great(!) I can just imagine it now: your car refuses to start because it's engage in <ahem> "activity" with the car in front (or behind). It drives off on its own to chase that "hotty" car it just saw (detected?) go by. If that is really gonna happen, I hope they don't invent Viagra for cars. We'd never be able to get anywhere.

User avatar
TT Snim
Operative
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Crazy-ville
Contact:

Post by TT Snim » Thu Apr 24, 2003 1:05 pm

All right, you guys are going to think I'm nuts...
...

More nuts...

But after I read that whole thing I thought why not have a program to give cars personalities? I don't think giving the cars the ability to go into "heat" would ba a good idea at all. (Thinks for a moment) No, nonono...

I do, however, think that grate benifits could come from a car with a computer in it that one could interact with. So, with paper in hand and a brain deprived of sleep I joted down notes some time after midnight. Now, my dear friends, I will try to make sence of them and ask your honest thoughts on them.

Here it goes... (Glances at scribbels) Ok, first thin is first, how would you give this program feelings?

Answer: You use a graph system like in the SIMS. Of you who own this game or have plaed it you know what I'm ranting about. bars reprisent at what pricent of the perscribed "Feeling" is positive and negitive.

How would this work? Magic! (Always wanted to say that) In reality the "Feelings" would be noting more than :
Hunger Would be for things like gass and energy for the PC
Fun/Happy would be interaction like games and stuff
Hurt/Pain would be troubles with the car it's self
Needs would be things like oil change, air in tiers and stuff like that.
And any other catigory needed just be cause we can add one if we like.

But, as any SIM player knows, the sims don't remember what has been done day to day, that's the player's job. They can't look back and say "Boy was that fun!" Or "I sure wish Billy Sim hadn't crisped when he tried to coock some thing on the stove."

We need the AI to be able to remember. This is a problem, and a chalenge... Please go here to see what could be the answer.
http://www.cyberlife-research.com/artic ... /ieee0.htm
I, by the way, have this game. It is awesome! If you like breeding littel hampster like things and running your but off when the "monsters" chase you, that is.

So, it has feelings and memory. )Note here that it DOES NOT do any thing to the car it's self, it can only sence the car through the dash and instuments in the car it's self.) It needs some thing else, a REASON to live. In other words it can't just sit and be cute, so add some office features, like calander, meeting planer, address book, finance manager, car records filing system for milage and matenence, a note book of some sort, iternect and hands free phone capibilities, and so on.

Comunication is a can do now. Speach to text would be how you would talk to it. It would work only in text recognition, but I could beable to recognize your voice and even the tone of it for better interaction. And it could comunicate to other car AIs. It could go on line in to it's own "Chat world" to comunicate long distance. ANd to comunicate back Text to speach or just text.

Also there could be diferent "Breeds" of AI "Personality". The "Cat" would be sassy and smart. The "Dog" would be fathefull and inteligent. And so on. And all AI could be bought and installed. Hooked up to the dash board and set up in the car's radio/intertainment aria.

One last thing, the makers of this AI could make a contract to the buyer and say they could reclame it if the contract was broken, thust insuring that A: the AI would never bee hacked in to and pirated and B: insure that in a small way the AI would have some small rights as a "New Life form"

OK, that was my rant, tell me what you like, and what needs work. Chow! :D

User avatar
knightimmortal
FLAG Special Ops
Posts: 2197
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Taos, NM, USA
Contact:

Post by knightimmortal » Thu Apr 24, 2003 1:37 pm

1) You need to stop associating AI with games.

2) If you ever want to get into programming, you had better work on the typos.

3) You need to get more sleep at night.

KI

User avatar
TT Snim
Operative
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Crazy-ville
Contact:

Post by TT Snim » Thu Apr 24, 2003 2:13 pm

What I'm saying here is that an in car office program can have personality. Really any thn not needed and used for plesure is a toy. This AI would be a toy, really, but even toys are good foundations for the real thing.
It's not a sirious matter unless used that way.

No, I can't program, yet, but I hope to learn, and will try when my art lessons are compleated. And typoes are some thing I work on every day. Games are fun, and would be a good way to inter act with the AI, and the games I have refered to I would only use parts or concepts from. In esence I would canabalize the ideas and use them to create what I would latter compleat.

The Sims have very basic principles and I used them only as an example for what it really looks like in my head. It was a perfect example, and Steven Grand, creator of Creatures is a very sirious man when it comes to AI, his game is an experiment in AI that so far is a leader in the field.

And Kitt played games with Micheal, they did that, it's human to want to play. THis is how we interact in our lives, as children very simple interaction like games are needed, and this is child AI in many ways. Under developed Office function AI. With a personality.

It's not for every one, I agree, not every one likes games. But as one who lives in a nest of geeks I know for some people this would be HUGE! they would love it. Think of japan, they are already working on a car with a wagging tail. (They also made a hampster powwered car, but that is quite beside the point)

All I'm saying is why not try it? I think a lot of people would really like it, especialy young female workers. I know I would buy one. It would be very usefull on the one hand, and very human adaptable on the other.

But it wouldn't be close to human, think of it as a pet. Like a dog, or a cat, but it can talk about past events with you.

All so it isn't an animal brain going in to a car, it's a car gaining the sence to tell you when some thing is wrong, remind you to pick up the milk on the way home, take notes, and posibly tell a bad joke.

The world is a vast play ground for people who are talented to play in. And science can't move on if we are close minded. Besides, if it doesn't work then we'll know. If it does, then we'll know. Only after trying can we know of what good it will be to us.

People who could use it and for what...
Cops to keep notes on persons he knows, reminders of places to check,
Semi drivers for the same, only with produce,
and people who have to comute to work...

The posibilities are only limited by time and imagination.

As for more sleep, yeah, I know, I do need more sleep. :wink:

User avatar
knightimmortal
FLAG Special Ops
Posts: 2197
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Taos, NM, USA
Contact:

Post by knightimmortal » Thu Apr 24, 2003 2:35 pm

Ok, we are back to this again.

Creatures is NOT the leader in the field, it is a joke that is actually a mediocre expert system, not even remotely used in AI, and once again, your approach to AI is extremely dangerous, and insulting to those who are really working on it.

And since you insist upon trying to come here with your flamboyant and rather childish approach to a rather serious subject, you have left yourself open to a rather harsh reality that will be delivered by somebody who actually knows what the hell they are doing, and has for some time.

Let me put it to you this way. AI is not a toy. AI is the creation of an intelligence, one that if actually achieved incorrectly could be the ultimate monster, in a screwing with nature, Jurassic Park sort of way.

You can't just 'give' a personality to something, because that is the first step to giving something independence, and its own world. Giving that to a car, once again, incorrectly (which I don't actually worry about with you, because your basis is always off of fantasy, and child play) could end up with something that makes KARR look like a sweetheart.

Using ideas off of other software programs is not only infringing on the programmer, but an obvious sign that you have no clue about program relations. You can't just take bits and pieces to make a whole without understanding the intimate workings.

Playing games is one thing. Making AI a game, is like giving a child a cloning kit and telling them to have fun. You have to be serious before you create play.

Maybe before you keep coming up here with your ideas, you should learn about the realities that go into making such an item, (like programming) and then base your ideas off of what is possible, and know what you are truly talking about, not just reading into articles and websites that cater to your sci-fi ideas. I am all for the creation of AI, I am not all for people making fun of it, or making it's concept into one giant game.

Sorry if this comes off holier than thou, but I have not spent several years in the field just to be demeaned and to have the real work in AI demeaned by something like this.

KI

User avatar
TT Snim
Operative
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Crazy-ville
Contact:

Post by TT Snim » Thu Apr 24, 2003 2:52 pm

(Sigh)
You mistake my intentions. I am not making a big game, but a tool with qalities that would sell and be some what usefull. I have other projects on the back burner, like B.R.A.I.N., the Bianary Research and Investigation Network. It could help in the medical field as well as at home. Flight was a fanticy, so was walking on the moon, and sailing the Atlantic, and all sorts of stuff scoffers laughed at people for.

My AI is not a threat to any one in this form, this form would have no interactions with the car at all, it's more of a mobile office system. I know you have worked hard for years, Ki, and I respect you grately for it. I'm new to this, but sirious.

And I don't think I can give a car that sort of power that the character Kitt had. I'd like to try, but I know it's a long shot.

I realise my coming and talking about it seems to step on your toes. For this I am sorry. But I am a question asker, a sort who likes to gather facts and concepts. I hav seen noting from you that prooves I can't make it work my way. Of this I mean the mobile office AI.

How is it demeaning? I'm sorry, really, that it ofends you to this degree, but I don't see how it can be so. I'm just a sirious as you, I just hit the subject from a diferent prospective.

As for Creatures it has it's own field. Again, that was an example. I do that, use examples.

Honestly I think with time, honest labor and learning I can get it to work, and even if it doesn't actualy go in to cars it might still do well in home PCs. Who knows?

User avatar
knightimmortal
FLAG Special Ops
Posts: 2197
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Taos, NM, USA
Contact:

Post by knightimmortal » Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:49 pm

Let me put it to you this way. You aren't approaching it at all, all you are doing is putting together science fiction fantasies, that aren't really what you are selling it as. It is mislabelling, and it really does insult the REAL work of what is going on.

Let me see, here is one thing that proves you can't do it: you don't know how you don't know the concepts that go into it, and the way you make it sound, 'oh, let's just slap it together, and it should work.'

I think the thing that annoys me most about what you do with this concept, is that you DON'T ask questions, you make statements and ask for others opinions about your statements. You come on saying that you know all, see all, and don't even have a clue about the reality of the situation. You throw out your ideals, but never quite expect anybody to follow up on them with the word 'can't', which is, despite all the inspirational seminars jibberish, is a very real word.

Prove to me that YOU can do it. Prove that you can, and I will accept it as viable, throw it out there as a flight of fancy, pretty much expecting somebody to say 'ok, yeah, let's do it', isn't going to do much, not for anybody seriously (yes, it is seriously) in the field.

Before you build an AI, you need to know what one is first.

Before you build a personality, you need to know exactly what one is first.

There is no such thing as an 'office AI', and calling it such is an insult in itself. That is like saying that you have a child on your computer. and if you are looking for something that talks back to you, and does stuff on the computer with you, and interacts with you, then, well, it exists, and has since the 90's, in varying forms, from Dogz, to Catz, to Sidekick.

KI

User avatar
Rockatteer
FLAG Assistant
Posts: 821
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Cyber Space
Contact:

Post by Rockatteer » Fri Apr 25, 2003 7:08 am

OK, lets drop all references to A.I. and just forget about that whole side of it...before KI blows a fuse or something :D

Your idea does sound like quite a kewl gimic. Another way of customizing your car. I can just see all the boy racers having personality modules installed in their cars.

There could be some merit to the idea if car manifacters could replace all the individual warning lights etc on the dash with some simple... happy, sad, sick indicators, the driver could then perhapes go into a menu or something to see exactly what the problem was.

OH MY GOD!!! a car made by Microsoft!! All warning lights replaced by a single "illegal funtion" light. :lol:
What would MacGyver do? - Find out here.
http://www.macgyveronline.com

User avatar
knightimmortal
FLAG Special Ops
Posts: 2197
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Taos, NM, USA
Contact:

Post by knightimmortal » Fri Apr 25, 2003 2:38 pm

No, a car made by Microsoft would have an illegal function, and go berzerk, plowing through a nursing home.

KI

User avatar
TT Snim
Operative
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Crazy-ville
Contact:

Post by TT Snim » Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:54 pm

I like that. The illegal light could be used, instead, when you made a wrong tern or a U turn in a no-U-turn zone.
My I ask, Rockertter, if you are a female? It's hard to tell just looking at type all the time.

User avatar
Darknight
FLAG Recruit
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Huntington/Wayne area, WV
Contact:

Post by Darknight » Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:37 pm

TT, it sounds like you would be more or less satisfied with a chatterbot sort of program. If you don't know any programming(I hardly know any)I personally suggest downloading QBASIC because it's so simple. Anyone could learn its basics(hence the name "BASIC" plus the Q for "Quick"). It won't get you AI. It won't even come close, but you might enjoy pranking with it anyway. You can learn to make a program that appears to respond to your inputs in a matter of minutes. You can build several programs and link them together to form a sort of primitive network similar to an OS, but not really an OS.

Really though, you can write standard computer programs till you turn blue in the face, and never scratch the surface of AI. Pure digital just doesn't have that capability.

DK

User avatar
Rockatteer
FLAG Assistant
Posts: 821
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Cyber Space
Contact:

Post by Rockatteer » Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:55 pm

Anyone could learn its basics(hence the name "BASIC" plus the Q for "Quick")


Um just a little aside here...its not called basic because it easy. Basic is an acranym for Bigginers All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code.

Your right its a great little language to play around with. If you really want to get into it you can try Liberty BASIC which allows you to program windows to run your programs in...much like visual basic.

Oh oh...my propaller hats starting to wind up...time to get out of here. :D
What would MacGyver do? - Find out here.
http://www.macgyveronline.com

User avatar
Darknight
FLAG Recruit
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Huntington/Wayne area, WV
Contact:

Post by Darknight » Sat Apr 26, 2003 1:07 am

A little insight - they chose those words purposefully to spell BASIC, because they were designing a language for the masses, and the novice. BASIC was never meant to be a high-end language. It was meant for people just like us, amateurs.

DK

User avatar
knightimmortal
FLAG Special Ops
Posts: 2197
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Taos, NM, USA
Contact:

Post by knightimmortal » Sat Apr 26, 2003 1:23 am

Well, you can sort of see it in the meaning of a few of the words just by looking at them.

Beginners - That is starting out.
All-Purpose - Ok, this is a lie, it doesn't go that far, but it does get you into the swing of things.
Instruction - It teaches you. Pretty redundant with Beginners.

So, yeah, you can see it.

Ow, that hurt my brain.....

KI
Last edited by knightimmortal on Sat Apr 26, 2003 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Darknight
FLAG Recruit
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Huntington/Wayne area, WV
Contact:

Post by Darknight » Sat Apr 26, 2003 1:27 am

Well said.

DK

P.S. Currently still pranking around with QBASIC, exploring and such. I believe that with the right input/output configuration, you could do some fun little projects with it. Those little STAMP modules are also pretty interesting for tinkerers like us.

Chuckysan
Volunteer
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2002 1:01 am

Post by Chuckysan » Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:46 pm

TT, cars already have personalities, at least the ones I've owed did.

The most prominent one that comes to mind was an 84' New Yorker. This car was a female and always making her presece known. When a bunch of young guys would drive by with their music blaring, she would idle so loud you would think she had a racing engine without a muffler, but when no one was around, she was quiet and well mannered. And if I had a date, she would get so jealous she wouldn't start. Literally. I could never take a beatiful woman out in that car because quite litterally it wouldn't start around attractive women. Ever.

It also ran without a hitch for months without an drop of oil in it (light was out). The power windows would roll down by themselves sometimes, even though I could never find any such electrical problem. And once she made it almost 50Km with the needle way below empty.

*sigh* mmmm I miss that old beast :) lol

User avatar
knightimmortal
FLAG Special Ops
Posts: 2197
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Taos, NM, USA
Contact:

Post by knightimmortal » Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:49 pm

That's not a personality....that's possession. :shock:

KI

User avatar
Darknight
FLAG Recruit
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Huntington/Wayne area, WV
Contact:

Post by Darknight » Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:26 am

ROFL LMAO OMG That's hilarious!

:shock: :D :lol:

User avatar
Katt
Operative
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Katt's garage in Phoenix, Az
Contact:

Post by Katt » Sun Apr 27, 2003 1:49 am

Hey, my mom has a 92 buick century that I swear listens to us, or she did once anyway, I call the car grandma cause she reminded me of those big cars your grandmothers would drive. Anyway, heres my story on her:

One night mom was bringing me home from my job at the ranch, and I looked on the dash and the battery light was on, and so I pointed it out to mom, not long after that the car started acting up, it sounded like the motor was going to cut off, then it kicked back over, she kept that up for 5-6 miles through stop lights, and stop signs, on the way I was telling her, just get us home, just get us home. We pull into the driveway, open the garage door, and the engine dies with just enough momentum to get us in the garage. We later found out it was the altenator.

Coincidence? I swear she still listens today. :lol:

User avatar
knightimmortal
FLAG Special Ops
Posts: 2197
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Taos, NM, USA
Contact:

Post by knightimmortal » Sun Apr 27, 2003 1:54 am

At least you didn't have to experience the Demon Vehicle. The vehicle that would put Stephen King's Christine to shame.

It was a older than dirt Vega, it was my older sister's first car. We actually have video tape of this thing. It's electrical system was screwed up, but the wiring was the same. When you turned on the windshield wipers, the radio came on. Turn the radio on, the turn signals would activate. The engine would start by itself, and the brakes would fail, as would the transmission. One night, we were outside, hunting nightcrawlers (ok, we were young) and suddenly, the thing started up, by itself, and it rolled down the driveway, then came to a stop near the river, and just idled. I am not joking here. My sister got rid of that car as fast as she could.

KI

User avatar
Katt
Operative
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Katt's garage in Phoenix, Az
Contact:

Post by Katt » Sun Apr 27, 2003 1:58 am

:shock: Ok, think that car was possesed by spirits or something. :shock:

User avatar
TT Snim
Operative
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Crazy-ville
Contact:

Post by TT Snim » Sun Apr 27, 2003 1:08 pm

All odd stories. To be sure. Our cars are all well be haved, for the most part.

Yes, this program would be more chat bot than any thing else, but its the other things that would be added to make it use full. The ability to tell you what is wrong with the car where and when. Also the mobile office capibilities. The personality would be variables that would react to stimuly, but the key here, to the program's peronality, is the memory and the cor program.

DK, do you know where I can down load this Q-Basic and or Basic? I have a book for a lap top to program in basic, but the lap top is from the 80's and has a 3 X 2 inch screen. Not an easy thing to use for my spoild MS Windows 2000 person. :roll:

As of now I'm working on down loading Creaturs 3 Editors for my tinkering. As small as it is it's a step forward.

(A journy of a thousand Miles start out with one HUGE step.)

User avatar
knightimmortal
FLAG Special Ops
Posts: 2197
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Taos, NM, USA
Contact:

Post by knightimmortal » Sun Apr 27, 2003 11:34 pm

Actually, it is one itty bitty step, in a direction where others have alread

How about you go to google and type in BASIC and see what you come up with there? Or QBASIC?

KI

User avatar
Darknight
FLAG Recruit
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Huntington/Wayne area, WV
Contact:

Post by Darknight » Sun Apr 27, 2003 11:43 pm

Here's a very crude, incomplete, hastily done rendition of a chatterbot, authored by me. I call it KITTbot. Just hit F5 once you get to the blue screen with the sourcecode on it. When you're done talking, type in "exit" or "quit." Don't type in "goodbye," as KITT is very lonely, and doesn't like having people leave. Therefore speak to the program itself, not the personality, when you're ready to leave(ok, I'm actually just full of it). Ask Kitt questions about the show, etc...he may not have an answer for everything, but you might enjoy it anyway. You are free to use the source code; it's nothing spectacular, and I sure ain't gonna make any money from it. QBASIC.com is a great site. You can also find lots of other information on QBASIC just by a google search. Here ya go:

http://www.geocities.com/corbydillon/kitt1.bas


DK

Locked