The Best KITT Car

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by seeker78 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:14 pm

tamatt27 wrote:(picture of Cadillac CTS Coupe Concept)


I'm down with that car as long as they are going to make it in Lansing, Michigan, USA, where the current Cadillac CTS Coupe is made...or another assembly plant here. Given that, yeah, that would be a good KITT car... :) :kitt2:

Call me a broken record, but I think the Americans who have decent, good paying, blue collar jobs as a result of making that car in the USA would support me on that. :) Knight Rider in the 80s contributed to job security for Americans working on the Trans Am, the 08 Knight Rider is going to do the same for Americans working on the Mustang, and a Knight Rider movie that used a Cadillac CTS made in the USA would do the same for Americans working at that plant. I may not agree politically with a lot of Midwesterners, but I certainly do support them having good jobs. We're still all Americans.

I have not seen Victor Kros statement on his opinion with regard to using a Cadillac CTS made in Lansing, Michigan for the KR feature film? It seems that Victor has suggested only foreign made cars such as the Accura NSX Concept which is apparently planned to be made in Japan.

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by seeker78 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:24 pm

I agree with toyota solara, mitsubishi eclipse would also be good. Both look very Knight Rider to me! and are made in the Midwest, USA. But they are FWD so I guess they are out by the standards of many on here... :( I still don't understand that whole drivetrain hangup, sorry guys. I look at a car like the Cadillac CTS and CTS-V or the Mitsubishi Eclipse and say "it looks fast", I don't have the specs memorized....but I have my own KITT car hangups that others are not down with so I guess it all comes out in the wash :kitt:

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by Matthew » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:30 pm

Seeker,

I'm sure you don't mean any harm by what you've said numerous times over by now, but the simple fact is that we feel you're beating us over the head with a bunch of mindless twaddle.

I mean, your belief that because the Camaro is built in Canada, for an American company to sell on American soil, makes the car Canadian Muscle, is so completely and utterly bizarre, that one can only assume that you also would see a European Exotic, such as the Ferrari California, as an American Exotic if it were built on US soil for US retail.

I don't have to be a gear head to know that your extreme level of patriotism has created some form of warped point of view, and to be blunt, we’re tired of hearing about it.

You have your opinion, and that's fine, but please stop banging it over our heads, because the time will come when everyone just puts you onto their ignore list so that they don’t have to hear about it anymore, and to be frank, I don’t want to see that happen, because when you aren’t beating that poor dead horse, you’re a decent guy with some great insight into areas that many of us are quiet clueless about, such as the inner workings of the Navy.

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by blowersho » Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:55 am

Only base model 4dr are built in Ohio, the other half of base 4dr and all other models are built in Canada.

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by Sky_Blue_Civic » Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:50 am

seeker78 wrote:Honda Civics are made on American soil in East Liberty, Ohio, among other places (I would guess that if you buy a new Honda Civic in the USA, it came from the East Liberty plant.

The Civic I have is the US Civic model,because I live in the US.
Congratulations!By reading this signature,KITT's AWESOMENESS has increased by ONE POINT!
So far KITT's power level is OVER 9,000!!!!
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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by Cobra » Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:40 pm

Over the past few days I have been looking at the list of cars that in my opinion would make a great KITT and have come to the belief that a Euro "supercar" wouldn't be a bad idea after all. I mean when you look at the original KITT, there were many factors that made that KITT unique (many of which we do not have the luxury of today in our list of choices of new KITT):
1) Car's body was sleek and futuristic looking (but not over-done and corny).
2) Car had recently come out and not everyone owned one (unlike a Civic or Accord)
3) Car had a back-seat.

Being an American make and model was an added bonus but not really relevant.

I believe in terms of importance, it goes by that order. At the end of the day, the modifications to KITT (the scanner, the sleek shiny body, the black hubcaps, the modified nose) made the car look more like a "euro supercar" than an American car. What made it subtle was not so much the fact that it was a Trans-Am but the perfect choice of colour on the car (black body with black hubcaps) made the car appear more subtle on the road than if the car was bright red (like KIFT). This is why I disagree with the idea that the new KITT must be a "common car" so it "doesn't stick out like a sore thumb."

If you look at the Ferrari's of today and the Lamborghini's, they all carry that body design (sleek and futuristic). KITT's body carried a presence and it was the sleek design that made people take a second look. The current box body designs I see today on American cars don't generate that level of attention and could never properly carry that "aura" the original KITT did.

If you look at the KITT in the pilot (pre-scanner and nose change) and the KITT (post-scanner and nose change), you will see a significant difference in the actual look of the car with something as simple as a modified nose. Changing the modified nose was a very smart move as it actually made KITT look more sleek and gave the scanner a perfect spot behind the nose and in front of the engine hood.

The problem today is that many "supercars" that carry KITT's body design don't have a back-seat. My solution to that is if we can modify the dash, what makes it impossible to modify the number of seats (or even imcorporate that into the plot as one of KITT's abilities - KITT is a two-seater but when required can modify its interior to fit two additional seats (this is the car of the future after all - why have two idle seats take up space when they are not needed?))?

I had to sit and think hard about what made KITT stand out to me as a kid and realized it was the sleek futuristic design of the car that drew me in initially (and more suprises came while I watched - ie. car could talk, car could jump, car had a cool dash, etc.). Had the intro shown a truck or a boxy muscle car, I doubt I would have been as quickly drawn the day I saw the shiny sleek black Trans-Am dash past the desert towards the TV.

It is a given, kids love super-cars, adults love super-cars. If you use a car that is common or has a retro box look (a step backwards), people will simply laugh it off ("hey look they are using my civic as the car of the future!", etc.). You could see the response of the fans and audience when the Mustang was chosen as KITT. Now the fans have had to move on and live with that decision and are hoping the plot, the personality of KITT, etc. etc. removes the bad taste that choice of car left in their mouths (not a good move by NBC or those involved in Knight Rider the new series).

Recently, Lamborghini released the Reventon. There are so many things about this car that made me realize it would be a great choice for KITT. The car is based on the design of a jet (ie. in Knight of the Pheonix, Devon mentions to Michael as they sit in the cockpit of KITT: "...and is operated entirely by microprocessors which make it virtually impossible for it to be involved in some mishap or collision unless specifically so ordered by its pilot" to which Michael responds: "Don't tell me this thing flies!"). The car carries the tradition of the sleek and futuristic body design for today's generation that KITT carried so well in the 80s for the 80s generation. The car had promo shots done racing a fighter jet (again showing off the sheer power and speed of this car). The dash of the car is designed to resemble a jet (futurstic). The car has an aura that makes you wonder what kind of power and secrets the car is hiding beneath the hood (something very few cars can do and something that the original KITT body design and modifications did so well). The car even in gun-metal black doesn't stick out like a sore thumb and is subtle yet futuristic. The car is not a "common car" you see on the road everyday which helps promote the "uniqueness" of the car.

Because I have a lot of hope in VK and Mr. Larson, and I know they have an eye for the smallest of details, I firmly believe they won't overlook anything in their desire to launch the Knight Rider movie and make it as big of a success (if not bigger) than the original Knight Rider series.

I have pasted a few pics of KITT alongside the Reventon to show you the similarities of the body and how unique both cars are for their time and why I strongly feel after looking at all the cars so far that the Reventon would be the perfect choice for KITT:

Image

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by tamatt27 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:36 pm

Image
KNIGHT RIDER RELOADED is a series of movies on Youtube to represent a different creative avenue to the Knight Rider we knew in 2008-09.
http://www.youtube.com/user/tamatt27

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by neps » Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:39 pm

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by jaimetheking » Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:31 am

Here are some renderings I found from various sources...
kittcamarosmall.jpg
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muscle1.jpg
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CarscoopV_Aero-Kitt.jpg
CarscoopV_Aero-Kitt.jpg (12.75 KiB) Viewed 42659 times

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by jaimetheking » Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:33 am

2900475_33_full.jpg
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...and some more!
2007kitt1wx.jpg
2007kitt1wx.jpg (13.01 KiB) Viewed 42597 times

knightc5.jpg
knightc5.jpg (135.54 KiB) Viewed 42599 times

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by Sky_Blue_Civic » Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:58 am

jaimetheking wrote:
muscle1.jpg

This would make a great KITT,but not because it's a TransAm!It look great! :good:
Congratulations!By reading this signature,KITT's AWESOMENESS has increased by ONE POINT!
So far KITT's power level is OVER 9,000!!!!
Petition #9

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by seeker78 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:22 am

I still say the camaro concept still has the boxy front...and it is generally boxy all around...which was my main objection to the Mustang when first mentioned. Camaro Concept is like a Corvette but with all the aerodynamic/futuristic/spycar curves replaced with 90 degree corners or nearly so... If you want a boxy car just stay with the Mustang, at least it's made here. That 2011 trans am is a Trans Am in name only.

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by seeker78 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:37 am

blowersho wrote:Only base model 4dr are built in Ohio, the other half of base 4dr and all other models are built in Canada.


Blower, you're in Canada, so yes, if you buy a new Civic in Canada, it is probably going to be one of the Canadian built ones. If you buy a new Civic in India it will probably be made in the India plant. If you buy it in Japan it will be made in the Japan plant. They have like 6 or 7 different assembly plants for the Civic.

But if you buy a Civic in the USA, it was probably made in Ohio.

Like I said this is called "lean manufacturing" also known as Just in Time...I worked in a factory that employed those principles at one point. The idea is you build what the customer wants, as many units as they need (not more and not fewer), when the customer wants it, as close to where it will be used as possible. This reduces inventory and transportation costs, and supposedly makes it more efficient in general. As a blue collar worker at such a plant (and I know because I was one), one major drawback is that you get inconsistent comments from management about how many units they want built each day, one day they'll say "you guys are working too fast, you need to get in the rhythm better" and the next day they'll say to speed up. One guy got fired after working there for only 2 weeks because, believe it or not, he was working too fast! Although I only know that from someone else who was still at the plant after I quit. I recently heard they are shutting down that plant. Hopefully the replacement will be in the USA, I would expect it would if they keep doing the lean manufacturing.

Hospira, the company I was working for through a temp agency, works in the same way that Honda and Toyota do with cars...if you buy a Hospira pump in Europe, it was probably made in Ireland. If you buy it in the USA, it was probably made in California, etc. If it is a morphine delivery pump, and the mechanism module has a little sonar symbol printed on it with a black pen, or a capital B, it was made by me! ;)

To my knowledge this is not a very popular method among American companies, they generally want to have one plant and then just ship it around the world wherever it is needed. Unfortunately since we gave China MFN status, those factories are moving there. But with JIT/Lean, you have multiple factories to reduce transportation costs etc.

--Brian

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by seeker78 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:17 am

Matthew wrote:Seeker,

I'm sure you don't mean any harm by what you've said numerous times over by now, but the simple fact is that we feel you're beating us over the head with a bunch of mindless twaddle.


"I'm sure you don't mean any harm by what YOU'VE said numerous times" either.... :roll:

I mean, your belief that because the Camaro is built in Canada, for an American company to sell on American soil, makes the car Canadian Muscle, is so completely and utterly bizarre,


Why? Most cars that are called "American Muscle" are made in AMERICA hence the term "AMERICAN Muscle".

As opposed to European Exotics, etc.

Viper? Made in USA
Corvette? Made in USA
Mustang? Made in USA
2006 Ford GT? Made in USA
Trans Am (with the exception of the revival in the 90s)? Made in USA

(the trans am used in knight rider, a 1982 model, was made in usa. so were all trans am until the 1993 generation (4th generation))

I see a pattern.

So, no, Matt, I don't think the idea of an "American Muscle" car being made in the USA is in any way bizarre. I think there is decades of precedent for it. Ford Mustang and Chevy Corvette have been made in the USA longer than I have been alive. They are AMERICAN institutions hence "American Muscle".

In fact, when Toyota first started to try to come into NASCAR, a lot of gearheads objected because it was supposedly not an American brand, when in fact Toyota had been making cars on American soil for 50 years....they assumed that because it was a Japanese company, that meant their cars were made there. In truth, many of their cars are made in the USA.

that one can only assume that you also would see a European Exotic, such as the Ferrari California, as an American Exotic if it were built on US soil for US retail.


It would be Made in the USA, yes. It couldn't be called a European Exotic if they don't make the thing in Europe. But part of the point of Ferrari is that it is Italian Engineering. So what do you think the chances are that they would make it here. But then again some executives think "the world is flat" and sell out to the cheapest labor in 3rd world dictatorships, so who knows.

You have your opinion, and that's fine, but please stop banging it over our heads, because the time will come when everyone just puts you onto their ignore list so that they don’t have to hear about it anymore,


Did it occur to you that I feel the same way about using a foreign made car for Knight Rider? That should be obvious.

Especially a boxy ugly monstrosity like the Camaro Concept. The 1993 Camaro is FAR SUPERIOR in external appearance. But it's still a foreign made car. The Camaro you guys are talking about, the Camaro Concept, is like you took that 93 Camaro, that beauty of a car, that work of art, and chopped off the ends of it and replaced it with a big concrete brick and called it a Camaro.

So let's talk about things being banged over one's head.

Yeah, man, it is called a Trans Am. If you rename a Gillig Bus "Pontiac Trans Am" that won't make it slick and spycar like the way the 82 Trans Am was. Or even the 93 Camaro.

Check it out gearheads. This is a 93 Camaro...AWESOME LOOKING CAR:

Image

This is your Camaro Concept that you want to use for KITT, the only apparent reason being that a version will be called Trans Am...SHOCKINGLY UGLY CAR:

Image

I think the 93 is clearly superior. It looks fast. The Camaro Concept looks like the only reason it is able to move through the air is because of the excessively powerful engine! The back end of the Camaro Concept looks like a Mustang GT500KR. The exterior of the cabin area looks like a Dodge Charger (the new ugly one). Maybe to a gearhead, a powerful engine makes you blind to the external appearance, but I'm not a car nerd...I'm a computer nerd. HOW IN THE WORLD can the same people who objected to using a Mustang GT500KR think a Camaro Concept is BETTER????

So I say again Matt.

If you were talking about the 93 Camaro, well at least it would be a GOOD LOOKING foreign made car. That would be easier to accept.

But you're talking about an UGLY foreign made car!!

And you want that for KNIGHT RIDER?!? :o :o :o :roll: :roll: :roll:

--Brian

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by seeker78 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:24 am

one more thing to matt...

by your logic, the Jaguar is an Indian car because Jaguar is now owned by an Indian company! :roll:

Jaguar is made on British soil hence it is a British car....

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by Matthew » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:24 pm

seeker78 wrote:"I'm sure you don't mean any harm by what YOU'VE said numerous times" either.... :roll:

Brian,

As someone who’s consistently drummed to the same monotonic beat for nearly a year now, whilst being asked by a large number of people to stop on numerous occasions, I think it’s safe to say that you’re in no position to comment about my habits, or anyone else’s for that matter.

But, in the interests of fairness, I will point out that I’ve only mentioned your “foreign car” a hand full of times during the course of the last several months, if that.

I see a pattern.

So, no, Matt, I don't think the idea of an "American Muscle" car being made in the USA is in any way bizarre. I think there is decades of precedent for it. Ford Mustang and Chevy Corvette have been made in the USA longer than I have been alive. They are AMERICAN institutions hence "American Muscle".

My reference to your bizarre point of view was in relation to your belief that an American Muscle car being built in Canada should be classified as Canadian Muscle… not an American Muscle car being built in America not being classed as American Muscle.

The 1993 Camaro is FAR SUPERIOR in external appearance. But it's still a foreign made car. The Camaro you guys are talking about, the Camaro Concept, is like you took that 93 Camaro, that beauty of a car, that work of art, and chopped off the ends of it and replaced it with a big concrete brick and called it a Camaro.

HOW IN THE WORLD can the same people who objected to using a Mustang GT500KR think a Camaro Concept is BETTER????

Let me pose an alternative question since yours is rather nonsensical. How can someone who calls the Camaro a monstrosity, even consider supporting the Mustang, a vehicle that makes the Camaro look like it’s an Olympian standing next to a regular patron of McDonalds?

Matt

P.S. The Camaro Concept is old hat. You really need to catch up with the rest of us, and move onto the production version. :good:
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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by Matthew » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:45 pm

seeker78 wrote:by your logic, the Jaguar is an Indian car because Jaguar is now owned by an Indian company! :roll:

Jaguar is made on British soil hence it is a British car....

Brian,

I’m afraid that’s another unfortunate example of your own flawed logic, as Jaguar remained a British company, just like Aston Martin, even whilst under the American ownership of Ford. If we were to follow your erroneous perception of my logic, the Dodge Challenger would be a German Muscle car, given that Dodge is a brand of Daimler Chrysler.

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by seeker78 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:16 pm

Matthew wrote:As someone who’s consistently drummed to the same monotonic beat for nearly a year now,


That's not nearly true, I have been posting here since 2003, actually prior to that as well I think (though that was on the old board..this site has been around since 95, I seem to remember posting in college and from Groton, CT, where I was in 2000), I recently went for like a month with no postings at all...

my comments on wanting a US Made car are consistently limited to discussions where people suggest foreign made cars. If that's drumming a monolithic beat, then the people who want to use the Camaro Concept are guilty of the same thing.

You're making it sound like I do 100 posts a day about how I hate the camaro concept, that's not right. Maybe my only posts THAT YOU READ are about the camaro concept or how I want a US Made car. I sympathize, as I am interested in the subject as well, but I do not appreciate being cast as some kind of psycho as a result. If 20 posts are made about the Camaro Concept, and I reply to 10 of them saying I think it is ridiculous to use a foreign made car for KITT, that is hardly "beating it over our heads". You disagree, I get it. Neither of us are psycho.

Looking at past threads which I hadn't read before, I see that a similar thing was done to Victor Kros, people objected to a couple of his postings and suddenly he was being cast in the same light. I should have come to his aid, but I feel he does a pretty good job himself, and I usually am reading other threads.

But, in the interests of fairness, I will point out that I’ve only mentioned your “foreign car” a hand full of times during the course of the last several months, if that.


Yes but you claim to speak for a collective body, and I definitely feel like the Camaro Concept is being beaten over my head. As well as the idea generally that we need to abandon US cars for Knight Rider despite 20 years of using an American car. Not to mention the idea that there's something wrong with me for having a point of view in a web board. Which is more personal and more akin to an ad homenim argument than the one which I have been making.

Let me pose an alternative question since yours is rather nonsensical. How can someone who calls the Camaro a monstrosity, even consider supporting the Mustang, a vehicle that makes the Camaro look like it’s an Olympian standing next to a regular patron of McDonalds?


You will recall that one of my chief objections to using the Mustang was that it was boxy. I did use that word several times. So my argument is consistent. That of the people who want the Camaro is not. The people who want the Camaro apparently think it looks good because a version of it is going to be called Trans Am. Even though all versions are, to my eye, as boxy as the GT500KR.

The problem with the Camaro is that it is boxy AND foreign built. There are foreign built cars that at least look good. Like the Accura NSX Concept.

And the 1993 Camaro was a foreign made car but at least looks good also, as you just read. So your own quoting of me tends to defeat the argument you are making here.

P.S. The Camaro Concept is old hat. You really need to catch up with the rest of us, and move onto the production version. :good:


Any of these new camaros...."Camaro Concept", "2011 Trans Am" they are all boxy and ugly. And foreign made. I'm using "Camaro Concept" to refer to them collectively. As I said...if we are going to use a boxy ugly car for KITT, we might as well stay with the Mustang, at least it is Made in the USA.

--Brian

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by seeker78 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:38 pm

Matthew wrote:I’m afraid that’s another unfortunate example of your own flawed logic, as Jaguar remained a British company, just like Aston Martin, even whilst under the American ownership of Ford.


Right, even though the parent company was American, and now Indian, the car is British, as it is made in Britain. Now if they were MAKING the Jaguar in India, and selling it in Britain, that would make it an Indian car. Although you would still be calling it a British car no doubt because it is being sold in Britain. :roll:

To use your example of Ferrari, they are marketed all over the world...but I don't think anyone thinks of the Ferrari as a British, American or Canadian car...they are made in Italy. They are Italian cars.

Here is a definition of American Muscle on urbandictionary.com

Cars that were built in America by American companies from the late 50's until 1972 during the oil crisis where they all sucked, they in the 80's they began to pick up again with the fox body mustang, mercury capri, iroc camaro, monte carlo ss, and buick grand national. They are popularly mistaken as having. Common misconceptions of muscle cars are as follows, poor handling, poor fuel effeciency, poor suspension, and chassis. But take a step back 30 years and compare them to other cars of the time. You may notice that they are some of the fastest best handling cars of there time. And yes they are heavy, but so were most cars of the time, no matter who manufactured them. Today muscle cars basically destroy any other cars on the track, take Le manns for example where the corvette wins basically every race. Again they are becoming popular for racing, with turns, as pointed out in the past few issues of hot rod magazine which featured a camaro and a chevelle, both from the 60's, which destroy european cars on the track.

poor handling is often attributed to muslce cars which is usually true since most muscle cars are set up by their owners for the drag strip, where of course, they also dominate. Seriously, do you expect a car with 20 inch wide tires in the back and 3 inch wide tires in the front, and a big block v8 engines in between the front wheels to beat anyone in a turn?

I drive a volkswagen, and I am deeply into european cars, but seriously if you don't know anything about american muscle cars, keep your mouth shut. If you weren't so biased and you knew what you were talking about maybe you would seem a tad more intellegent


found at Urban Dictionary definition for American Muscle.

Here's another definition from Muscle Cars Society "Muscle cars are high performance cars made from 1964 to 1974. The car manufacturers put large displacement V8 engines in mid-sized production models at a price that the average American could afford and gave them new model names. The huge V8 engines used in muscle cars were modified to produce large amounts of horsepower and torque." And the examples they give are Camaro, Challenger, Charger, Chevelle, GTO,Mustang, Nova. Now, at THAT TIME, 1964-1974, all those were Made in the USA. That's not true anymore.

TheAACA Museum defines an American Muscle car as:

The formula for the American “muscle car” was simple. Take your smallest, lightest car body and cram it full of the biggest production V8 engine that would fit under its hood. “Warm” the engine by adding larger carburetors (or more than one of them), dual exhausts, a four-speed transmission, and a hotter cam shaft. Tighten up the handling by installing all the heavy duty brake and suspension pieces that you could find in the parts bin. Add a bright paint job, tape stripes, decals, wide red-striped tires, “racing wheels”, and hood scoops, and you had car that could thrash a Ferrari in a quarter mile race, scorch its rear tires at will and attract speeding tickets and young male drivers like the honey stand at a wasp convention.


and on that site they give the example of a Mustang Boss 429, an American made car.

So I think it is quite consistent, the idea that "American Muscle" traditionally means it was Made in the USA.

If we were to follow your erroneous perception of my logic, the Dodge Challenger would be a German Muscle car, given that Dodge is a brand of Daimler Chrysler.


Actually Daimler sold it off, it now belongs to an American private equity firm. The Dodge Challenger would be a Canadian Muscle car...certainly not American muscle, according to definition I am using, as Americans do not make it. In the past the Dodge Challenger was an American Muscle car, but since it is now made in Canada I contend that it no longer fits said designation. Still a muscle car. But not true American Muscle since it was not made by American hands.

--Brian

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by blowersho » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:27 pm

Seeker78: Perhaps you should educate yourself on a given topic before flapping your lips, I say again if you have a model of Civic other then base 4dr like an SI it is built in Canada even if you bought it in the US. Don't take my word for it, go to the Civic forum and check out what the Honda gang has to say about where Civic's are built.

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by Matthew » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:55 pm

seeker78 wrote:That's not nearly true, I have been posting here since 2003, actually prior to that as well I think (though that was on the old board..this site has been around since 95, I seem to remember posting in college and from Groton, CT, where I was in 2000), I recently went for like a month with no postings at all...

That’s why I mentioned the last year specifically, because before you began to mention your desire to see a 100% pure American car get used, I used to look forward to reading your posts, because you have some tremendous insight to offer. I have a love for military ships, aircraft, and other vehicles, but yet, compared to you who’s actually been there, I know next to nothing.

That’s the point I’m really trying to get across, even if I aren’t doing it in the most polite of ways.

my comments on wanting a US Made car are consistently limited to discussions where people suggest foreign made cars. If that's drumming a monolithic beat, then the people who want to use the Camaro Concept are guilty of the same thing.

To be fair, perhaps you are getting the short end of the stick, because you’re one voice against many, and as such, it’s entirely possible that the reaction you’ve gotten from a number people is due to you being seemingly alone in your views.

You're making it sound like I do 100 posts a day about how I hate the camaro concept, that's not right. Maybe my only posts THAT YOU READ are about the camaro concept or how I want a US Made car. I sympathize, as I am interested in the subject as well, but I do not appreciate being cast as some kind of psycho as a result. If 20 posts are made about the Camaro Concept, and I reply to 10 of them saying I think it is ridiculous to use a foreign made car for KITT, that is hardly "beating it over our heads". You disagree, I get it. Neither of us are psycho.

100 posts a day is a little on the extreme side, and I by no means intended to imply that you were quiet that bad, but a sizable portion of your posts from the last year have been dedicated to this particular subject.

No, I’d agree, neither of us are psycho, and I apologize for being tactless enough to leave room for such an implication.

Yes but you claim to speak for a collective body, and I definitely feel like the Camaro Concept is being beaten over my head. As well as the idea generally that we need to abandon US cars for Knight Rider despite 20 years of using an American car. Not to mention the idea that there's something wrong with me for having a point of view in a web board. Which is more personal and more akin to an ad homenim argument than the one which I have been making.

That’s the thing though, I disagree with you about the Camaro not being an American car, and so do the majority of people here, which is why your point of view is taken so badly by a great many of us.

If I viewed the Camaro as being foreign, I would be as against it as I am the likes of the Honda NSX, and the Nissan GT-R. I not only want the feature film KITT to be an American car, I ideally want it to be an American Muscle car, just like the Trans Am was, even if by the time Knight Rider was in production, muscle cars were generally a shadow of their former selves.

You will recall that one of my chief objections to using the Mustang was that it was boxy. I did use that word several times. So my argument is consistent. That of the people who want the Camaro is not. The people who want the Camaro apparently think it looks good because a version of it is going to be called Trans Am. Even though all versions are, to my eye, as boxy as the GT500KR.

Unfortunately, the big wigs at General Motors have said that they no longer want to have premium cars sharing the vast majority of their sheet metal, so for the time being, the G8 is going to be the most muscular entry of Pontiac’s lineup.

Personally, I don't want the Camaro due to its inherent connection to the Trans Am, I actually want it because of the level of heritage that the design holds. I mean, just look at it, it’s inherently modern in size and profile, yet bristling with retro styling cues from the 1969 version of first generation model.

Unfortunately, the same can’t be said of the Mustang, and especially the Challenger, which are both generally considered to be the Camaro’s primary source of competition. They’re both inherently retro designs that have been enlarged to fit the expectations of modern wheel sizes and components.

And the 1993 Camaro was a foreign made car but at least looks good also, as you just read. So your own quoting of me tends to defeat the argument you are making here.

Surely though, if an old car was an option, you’d agree that the original KITT would be the way to go?

The only reason for us getting behind other cars, foreign or domestic, is due to the fact that we can’t have the original, which in turn counts out everything that’s come and gone over the last 25 years as well.

seeker78 wrote:Right, even though the parent company was American, and now Indian, the car is British, as it is made in Britain. Now if they were MAKING the Jaguar in India, and selling it in Britain, that would make it an Indian car. Although you would still be calling it a British car no doubt because it is being sold in Britain. :roll:

The geographical ownership of these companies isn’t even at the heart of the debate though. You say that Jaguar cars are British due to them being built in Britain, but that simply isn’t the case. Jaguar would still be a British company, even if the cars were built in India, unless the owners specifically stated they were changing the company’s governance over to the Indian rules of law. Then, and only then, would Jaguar’s sold in Britain be viewed as being Indian.

It’s the same case for the Camaro. It may be being built in Canada, but only the plant itself is subject to Canadian law, so whilst the Chevrolet brand remains under the governance of American law, its products will remain American.

I mean, just imagine, if I was to state that any Camaro built on British soil would be a British Muscle car, I’d be laughed out of the building.

Actually Daimler sold it off, it now belongs to an American private equity firm.

I stand corrected. :good:

Matt
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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by Stylez » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:54 pm

Matthew wrote:It’s the same case for the Camaro. It may be being built in Canada, but only the plant itself is subject to Canadian law, so whilst the Chevrolet brand remains under the governance of American law, its products will remain American.

I mean, just imagine, if I was to state that any Camaro built on British soil would be a British Muscle car, I’d be laughed out of the building.


Matt


This is common sense I think for most people. I just don't understand the bizarre views, he's basically saying he doesn't like the new Camaro because it will be built in Canada. That's like me saying I don't like any people that DO NOT live on my block.

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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by Sky_Blue_Civic » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:28 am

blowersho wrote:Seeker78: Perhaps you should educate yourself on a given topic before flapping your lips, I say again if you have a model of Civic other then base 4dr like an SI it is built in Canada even if you bought it in the US. Don't take my word for it, go to the Civic forum and check out what the Honda gang has to say about where Civic's are built.

If you got somthing to ask about the civic,ask me.I know a lot about them in general. :good:
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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by Lost Knight » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:44 am

Seeker78 wrote:Call me a broken record


That's an understatement.

I've asked you politely to stop. I've asked you impolitely to stop. Other people have asked you to stop throughout the past year. Matthew has asked you to stop. Yet you keep rambling on and on about cars needing to be made in the U.S.A. to promote American jobs and that no other cars are good if they're foreign, etc.

Rather than simply saying, "OK, I see you guys get the point, no problem, I'll give it a rest," you continue to argue this point ad infinitum. Most of this thread has developed into a pointless debate where all I basically absorbed from it is the fact that since people continually bring up the Camaro, you should be able to bring up American-made cars. You also seem to think that it's all OK if you simply just don't post for a month or two as if the board is going to forget about all these "made in U.S.A." posts. And let me just say that I have complained in those endless "K.I.T.T. should be a Camaro" threads, too, and that nobody is picking on you personally. The thing is that many different members (many of which only posted a couple of times) kept bringing up the topic because they were too lazy to search for the other threads. You, on the other hand, know you keep repeating yourself and still continue to do it, and you're the only one arguing this point.

I'm not even going to bother hearing your response because you've proven that it will go nowhere. I'm simply just going to put you on ignore from now on because I can't take it anymore. Hey, I tried, I really did!
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Re: The Best KITT Car

Post by Stylez » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:57 am

Lost Knight wrote:
Seeker78 wrote:Call me a broken record



I'm not even going to bother hearing your response because you've proven that it will go nowhere. I'm simply just going to put you on ignore from now on because I can't take it anymore. Hey, I tried, I really did!


You mean you've waited until now to put him on ignore? You've got a lot of patience! lol

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