When did K.R. "jump the shark"?
Moderators: neps, Matthew, Michael Pajaro
When did K.R. "jump the shark"?
When did you know the show had gone to far and was over?
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neps
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An interesting reference is JumpTheShark.com:
http://jumptheshark.com/k/knightrider.htm
I'm torn on either it never did, or season 4 when creativity on the episodes started to drop. Some say SPM was the cause of it's jumping, but I'm not too sure it can be clearly defined.
http://jumptheshark.com/k/knightrider.htm
I'm torn on either it never did, or season 4 when creativity on the episodes started to drop. Some say SPM was the cause of it's jumping, but I'm not too sure it can be clearly defined.
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Michael Pajaro
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I remember the exact moment I thought Knight Rider's days were numbered: when I saw the recycled SPM footage in KITTnap. I enjoyed season 3, but even then I felt that the plots were starting to get a bit tiring. Then Juggernaut came along, and I thought that they really did a great job reinvigorating the series. Then KITTnap came along, and it's not that it was a bad episode, it's just that compared to Juggernaut it just seemed like more of the same. And seeing the recycled footage showed me they were doing things on the cheap. I would have loved seeing Jennifer Knight stay on as a regular character, but keeping her sort of "evil". The inner conflict she brought to FLAG was a great subplot.
I think Knight Rider had more of a gradual fizzle than a true Shark Jump, but if I had to pick a moment, it was KITTnap.
I think Knight Rider had more of a gradual fizzle than a true Shark Jump, but if I had to pick a moment, it was KITTnap.
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knightvision
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Actually IMHO Knight Rider jumped the shark with Knight of the Juggernaut. Suddenly something so plausable became so unbelievable.
Up until this point KITT was as believable as your imagination. Then the network wanted more ratings and in comes:
SPM
RC III
and above all:
Convertable mode
Now talk about jumping the shark with this show and the point where the shark comes up and bites it is KOTJ....
If you care to argue its after it you may be right but Knight Song and Voo Doo Knight would have never aired with inferior scripts in the 1st or 2nd season.
I also say KOTJ because thats the point where Robert Foster wrote the script and pretty much decided to go do something else. The show was never the same without his writing behind it.
Richie
Up until this point KITT was as believable as your imagination. Then the network wanted more ratings and in comes:
SPM
RC III
and above all:
Convertable mode
Now talk about jumping the shark with this show and the point where the shark comes up and bites it is KOTJ....
If you care to argue its after it you may be right but Knight Song and Voo Doo Knight would have never aired with inferior scripts in the 1st or 2nd season.
I also say KOTJ because thats the point where Robert Foster wrote the script and pretty much decided to go do something else. The show was never the same without his writing behind it.
Richie
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jup
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Knight Industries 3000
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I agree that SPM and convertible modes were the "jump-the-shark" moment for Knight Rider. I thought the convertible mode was totally pointless, considering that KITT is already a T-top with automagically disappearing T-top panels. On the other hand, the ejection seats would be safer to operate in convertible mode. 
KITT's SPM is silly, but it does have a certain "kewlness" to it. It reminds me a little of the USS Enterprise from the final episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation. In that show we see the Enterprise from 25 years in the show's future, and it has all sorts of added phaser banks, a "super phaser cannon," and three warp engines instead of the usual two. SPM KITT and the "All Good Things" Enterprise are basically kewl hot rod versions of their regular forms.
KITT's SPM is silly, but it does have a certain "kewlness" to it. It reminds me a little of the USS Enterprise from the final episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation. In that show we see the Enterprise from 25 years in the show's future, and it has all sorts of added phaser banks, a "super phaser cannon," and three warp engines instead of the usual two. SPM KITT and the "All Good Things" Enterprise are basically kewl hot rod versions of their regular forms.
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Arjun
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If you ask me, I don't think the quality dropped after KITTnap. Silly as that episode was, it was followed by the highly intense Sky Knight and Burial Ground.
The missions in the season were tough and all kinds of strange things were happening- KITT destroyed, KITT kidnapped, Michael and KITT in air on board a plane, then underground, the semi getting hijacked, an infiltration, who knows what else. This was why SPM and EBS were needed. They got the job done. So did Reggie and his bike. Unlike in Season 3, where there were a lot of miniscule features, with combinations, which did strange things, there were just 3 features, which were significant, which was a good thing.
C-Mode was just cosmetic, but still good.
The end of the season was quite tame, with the last SPM made in that farcical episode called "Knight Flight to Freedom", "Fright Knight" using neither SPM or Turbo Boost, "Knight of the Risisng Sun" being quite intense, then that really tame ending, "Voo Doo Knight". The season, on the whole, was better than Season 2, which just fell flat.
The missions in the season were tough and all kinds of strange things were happening- KITT destroyed, KITT kidnapped, Michael and KITT in air on board a plane, then underground, the semi getting hijacked, an infiltration, who knows what else. This was why SPM and EBS were needed. They got the job done. So did Reggie and his bike. Unlike in Season 3, where there were a lot of miniscule features, with combinations, which did strange things, there were just 3 features, which were significant, which was a good thing.
C-Mode was just cosmetic, but still good.
The end of the season was quite tame, with the last SPM made in that farcical episode called "Knight Flight to Freedom", "Fright Knight" using neither SPM or Turbo Boost, "Knight of the Risisng Sun" being quite intense, then that really tame ending, "Voo Doo Knight". The season, on the whole, was better than Season 2, which just fell flat.
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knightvision
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Better then season 2? Now there is something rare thats hardly argued on this board. Season 2 is by far superior to Season 4.The end of the season was quite tame, with the last SPM made in that farcical episode called "Knight Flight to Freedom", "Fright Knight" using neither SPM or Turbo Boost, "Knight of the Risisng Sun" being quite intense, then that really tame ending, "Voo Doo Knight". The season, on the whole, was better than Season 2, which just fell flat.
Lets look at it this way in comparing the best episodes of Season 2 to Season 4
Goliath and Goliath Returns vs KOTJ- Goliath and its sequal are far more entertaining then KOTJ. Goliath has KITT ramming head on with the truck. KOTJ has KITT's destruction by the rammer, but its not equally as exciting.
Not to mention Goliath Returns is even more fun then Goliath.
A Good Knights Work vs Killer KITT- Both deal with past history of FLAG coming back to bite them. Both episodes are equally good, but KILLER KITT is way more exciting so KILLER KITT gets the nod there.
Knightmares vs Scent of Roses- An even tie. Both are well written and both involve Micheal dealing with his past and the choices he mae to get there.
KITTnap, Sky Knight and Knight Sting vs Brothers Keeper, Merchants of Death and Return to Cadiz -The 4th season episodes are not strong enough here as all 3 second season stories have a lot of action, introduce new features for KITT and are exciting. KITTnap is far from exciting, Sky Knight is Bonnie's episodes so it is exciting but Knight Sting is dull....Season 2 episodes in this aspect are way stronger in characters and plots and inventions for KITT.
Now IMHO there is really only one truly bad episode of the 2nd season that really stands out:
Mouth of the Snake
In the 4th season we can find many bad episodes written poorly or that are just not anywhere close to the 2nd season standard of writing:
Voo Doo Knight
Fright Knight
Knight Song
I'm sure Out of the Woods and Knight of a Thousand Devils (along with Burial Ground for some) are just three sub-par episodes.
Its hard to argue a Silent Knight (Micheal saves Christmas for a young boy) or Big Iron( Micheal helps a husband see his wife's deception) doesn't have a better story or action plot then Out of the Woods (KITT's voice changes) and KOTD (KITT goes through Lava in a 3rd world country to rescue a president from a dictator).
I think just the fact you have RCIII in the 4th season is a significant negative compared to the 2nd season.
Except for KOTJ, Scent of Roses and Killer KITT (which could be all reworked into a 3rd season storyline) the 4th season is sub par without these episodes in it.
What makes SOR and KK work is the fact that neither SPM nor C mode is dependant on the story. SOR and KK dont rely on RCIII either, he is just another character in the story. KOTJ happens to have a lot of action in it.
I could bring up some more points, but the 4th season ratings clearly show the series had jumped the shark. It was not even close in season 2.
Richie
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Arjun
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First of all, Season 2 introduced a really dumb assistant who was just there to add glamour. When you look at some of those episodes, especially Ring of Fire, just dragged on. That one in particular was the most boring episode. Silent Knight was a Christmas special, so it's not so bad. Blind spot was a bit too strong for some viewers, while Return to Cadiz was just average, nothing special. Knight in Shining Armor did not fit into an action series, while that one about Diamonds, well, could make it to a soap opera. Race for Life was also far too 'soap opera-ish', especially if you want your episodes with a lot of action. Let it me Me was clearly a misfit in this series. In fact, most episodes had Michael and KITT solving personal and local problems, which could have been done by the local police.
I like tough missions, so Goliath was one of my personal favourites. Garthe Knight was one memorable character in that double. Even the build-up for that episode was good. But in Goliath Returns, Garthe was just plain obsessive and that episode was overdone.
"Brother's keeper" was a heavy episode, so I liked it. "Merchants..." was another interesting episode, while Knightmares was one of the better episodes the season had.
A lot of opinions on this thread may differ, but I liked Mouth of the Snake. For the same reason I liked the introduction of RC3- Michael has a partner. The missions in the 4'th season, as well as in this episode, were quite tough. Big Iron was another favourite, for the machines, and a good storyline, and also April's absence. The weakness of the David Dalton special was that it was written with Michael (David Hasselhoff) on vacation.
Season 4 has its own fans, mostly those who liked the action. Knight Sting was one of my personal favourites, just like "Inside Out", "A Plush Ride", "Goliath", "Merchants...", "Mouth...Snake", which feature an infiltration or a tough battle. Unfortunately, it was not so gripping, nor did it have much action. In fact, it was slightly comical. Knight Song was not that bad, since it too had a rather convincing storyline, about residents of a Chicago town who refuse to give up their neighbourhood for the shopping mall giants. I doubt if they were doing this just to boost ratings, since it's a lot better than what Airwolf did to boost theirs.
Knight Flight to Freedom (that lava/president/dictator episode) was good, but too loud and overdone. Out of the Woods was a good episode, while Deadly Knightshade was another intense episode, though not for beginners. Redemption of a champion was another convincing, and heavy story. Knight of a Thousand Devils was interesting, but did not make much sense. Fright Knight and Voo Doo Knight were just plain tame.
What I didn't like in Season 2-
Blind Spot
Return to Cadiz (well, not so much)
Ring of Fire (especially this)
Silent Knight (except for the festive nature of the episode)
White Line Warriors (some elemets of the story were good)
Race for Life
Knight in Shining Armor
Diamonds.....
Let it be Me
What I didn't like in Season 4-
KITTnap
Knight Behind Bars (which should have stayed unproduced)
Scent of Roses (way too emotional, but still a good episode)
Knight Flight to Freedom
Fright Knight
Voo Doo Knight (really tame ending)
I like tough missions, so Goliath was one of my personal favourites. Garthe Knight was one memorable character in that double. Even the build-up for that episode was good. But in Goliath Returns, Garthe was just plain obsessive and that episode was overdone.
"Brother's keeper" was a heavy episode, so I liked it. "Merchants..." was another interesting episode, while Knightmares was one of the better episodes the season had.
A lot of opinions on this thread may differ, but I liked Mouth of the Snake. For the same reason I liked the introduction of RC3- Michael has a partner. The missions in the 4'th season, as well as in this episode, were quite tough. Big Iron was another favourite, for the machines, and a good storyline, and also April's absence. The weakness of the David Dalton special was that it was written with Michael (David Hasselhoff) on vacation.
Season 4 has its own fans, mostly those who liked the action. Knight Sting was one of my personal favourites, just like "Inside Out", "A Plush Ride", "Goliath", "Merchants...", "Mouth...Snake", which feature an infiltration or a tough battle. Unfortunately, it was not so gripping, nor did it have much action. In fact, it was slightly comical. Knight Song was not that bad, since it too had a rather convincing storyline, about residents of a Chicago town who refuse to give up their neighbourhood for the shopping mall giants. I doubt if they were doing this just to boost ratings, since it's a lot better than what Airwolf did to boost theirs.
Knight Flight to Freedom (that lava/president/dictator episode) was good, but too loud and overdone. Out of the Woods was a good episode, while Deadly Knightshade was another intense episode, though not for beginners. Redemption of a champion was another convincing, and heavy story. Knight of a Thousand Devils was interesting, but did not make much sense. Fright Knight and Voo Doo Knight were just plain tame.
What I didn't like in Season 2-
Blind Spot
Return to Cadiz (well, not so much)
Ring of Fire (especially this)
Silent Knight (except for the festive nature of the episode)
White Line Warriors (some elemets of the story were good)
Race for Life
Knight in Shining Armor
Diamonds.....
Let it be Me
What I didn't like in Season 4-
KITTnap
Knight Behind Bars (which should have stayed unproduced)
Scent of Roses (way too emotional, but still a good episode)
Knight Flight to Freedom
Fright Knight
Voo Doo Knight (really tame ending)
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Skav
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I also prefer S4 to the others. It just seemed more fun and I like SPM. The show was already cheesy anyway so adding that concept didn't hurt the series. C mode was just added to make KITT look different. And it was only used in a couple episodes anyway.
As for the eps themselves, Knightmares is good but one of those that I've seen too many times.
Goliath and it's sequel is overrated. Thought the first was very slow, in fact the action didn't pick up until the last half and even with that, it was minimal still. GR is much more fun...I liked it way better than the first.
MOTS, now, I used to hate this episode but it has a great score to it and some interesting character's. It still shoulda had more KITT n Michael in it cos it's supposed to be KR after all.
Soul Survivor - good episode
Blind Spot - good
Cadiz - I actually liked the water thing.
Brother's Keeper - solid
KISA - standard
Big Iron - poor
Let it be me - poor
Race for life - dull
Good knight's work - sorry, but i found this a bit dull too
CUSTOM KITT - pretty fun
The others were sub standard.
As for s4, Sky Knight, SOR, Killer KITT, Burial Ground, KITTNAP, KOTJ, Out of the Woods, Redemotion of a champion, Fright Knight, Deadly Knightshade, Knight behind Bars were all good episodes.
And I even liked.....Voo Doo Knight. Thought it had a subtle sense of humour to it.
Too bad it was the last ep.
But S4 also wins the award for worst ep of the entire series....Knight Song. Practically no action, just full of youths getting singing lessons from KITT, a blind guy who was so very cheesy. The only good part was the crappy fight where Michael jumped the window.
And how do they defeat the villains? By throwing fruit at em. Rubbish!
But the others make up for it.
S4 eps were also more sharper, the villains were more intimidating and very serious. The editing was tighter plus they got rid of that mysterious "lump" in the back seat whenever KITT drove himself.
So, on the whole, cos of SPM, C MODE, technically well made eps, I prefer S4.
Skav
As for the eps themselves, Knightmares is good but one of those that I've seen too many times.
Goliath and it's sequel is overrated. Thought the first was very slow, in fact the action didn't pick up until the last half and even with that, it was minimal still. GR is much more fun...I liked it way better than the first.
MOTS, now, I used to hate this episode but it has a great score to it and some interesting character's. It still shoulda had more KITT n Michael in it cos it's supposed to be KR after all.
Soul Survivor - good episode
Blind Spot - good
Cadiz - I actually liked the water thing.
Brother's Keeper - solid
KISA - standard
Big Iron - poor
Let it be me - poor
Race for life - dull
Good knight's work - sorry, but i found this a bit dull too
CUSTOM KITT - pretty fun
The others were sub standard.
As for s4, Sky Knight, SOR, Killer KITT, Burial Ground, KITTNAP, KOTJ, Out of the Woods, Redemotion of a champion, Fright Knight, Deadly Knightshade, Knight behind Bars were all good episodes.
And I even liked.....Voo Doo Knight. Thought it had a subtle sense of humour to it.
Too bad it was the last ep.
But S4 also wins the award for worst ep of the entire series....Knight Song. Practically no action, just full of youths getting singing lessons from KITT, a blind guy who was so very cheesy. The only good part was the crappy fight where Michael jumped the window.
And how do they defeat the villains? By throwing fruit at em. Rubbish!
But the others make up for it.
S4 eps were also more sharper, the villains were more intimidating and very serious. The editing was tighter plus they got rid of that mysterious "lump" in the back seat whenever KITT drove himself.
So, on the whole, cos of SPM, C MODE, technically well made eps, I prefer S4.
Skav
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whet
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all 4 season's had their bad episode's in my opion.
My personal chioce.
Season 1. not a drop to drink, poor for so early on in the series weak ending.
Season 2. Mouth of the snake. ok lots of people are hard on this episode, maybe if it had just been a standard 45 minute episode it would have been better.
season 3. The Rotten Apples. Script writer's day off with this one???
Season 4. Knight song. I don't think I need to explain this one as my choice.
It's not just Knight RIder, I think all show's suffer their weak episode's,
alough I am not realy a fan of the A team for example, I did enjoy the odd episode that stood out.
my point is I guess I diden't think season 4 was all that bad all in all.
ok It's just my opion but life would be a bit dull if evryone thought the same.
My personal chioce.
Season 1. not a drop to drink, poor for so early on in the series weak ending.
Season 2. Mouth of the snake. ok lots of people are hard on this episode, maybe if it had just been a standard 45 minute episode it would have been better.
season 3. The Rotten Apples. Script writer's day off with this one???
Season 4. Knight song. I don't think I need to explain this one as my choice.
It's not just Knight RIder, I think all show's suffer their weak episode's,
alough I am not realy a fan of the A team for example, I did enjoy the odd episode that stood out.
my point is I guess I diden't think season 4 was all that bad all in all.
ok It's just my opion but life would be a bit dull if evryone thought the same.
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KnightRiderFanForever
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In my opinion, Knight Rider almost lost me when they brought in April in the second season. I hated her on sight and I loved Bonnie. I am especially fond of any episodes that featured her as a main role. I admired her and wanted to be like her....Smart and pretty. I felt she and Michael had that great chemestry. They liked each other but well no....they couldn't. They brought in April and I was like Oh look.... a slut. They put her in short shorts and tiny tops all for the looks. There was no "family feel" to the scenes. She was put in to be eye candy. Being a female...that didn't impress me at all. The whole second season I barely watched. I only tuned in to see Michael, KITT and Devon. Well.....mostly Michael! HEHEHEHE When I saw the promos for Bonnie coming back, my interest was back.
The point at which I feel it jumped was the 4th season. Adding RC111 was an interesting move, but I feel it changed the whole dynamic of the show. In other seasons it was Michael, Bonnie and Devon as a family. Adding RC just made it seem off to me. In seasons 1 and 3 Bonnie and Devon helped out more then in the 4th season. It seemed to me in the 4th season Devon did the "this is your case" stuff. Bonnie did the computer research and ok I will fix KITT. That was it. Very little "family like" interaction between them. At the end episodes anyway. Anyway...thats my opinion.
The point at which I feel it jumped was the 4th season. Adding RC111 was an interesting move, but I feel it changed the whole dynamic of the show. In other seasons it was Michael, Bonnie and Devon as a family. Adding RC just made it seem off to me. In seasons 1 and 3 Bonnie and Devon helped out more then in the 4th season. It seemed to me in the 4th season Devon did the "this is your case" stuff. Bonnie did the computer research and ok I will fix KITT. That was it. Very little "family like" interaction between them. At the end episodes anyway. Anyway...thats my opinion.
