"F.L.A.G."...a new KR series?

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"F.L.A.G."...a new KR series?

Post by KFCreator » Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:06 pm

I was thinking about this the other day...how cool would it be to create a new KR series that's a prequel? That seems to be the hottest way of revamping series or franchises these days (Smallville, Star Wars, etc) and I was thinking that instead of moving forward with KR, why not examine it's start? Not the start as we all know it, but Wilton Knight's start and the creation of FLAG and Knight Industries and KARR and KITT's creation. I was thinking a great simple title would be "F.L.A.G." Catchy, huh? Or if having "Knight Rider" in the title would be important, maybe name it "Knight Rider: Beginnings." I especially think it'd be cool to see KARR's creation and KITT when he was first activated for the U.S. government. Seeing Devon as a younger man would be awesome also. Maybe the series could even introduce a new, earlier form of A.I. created by Wilton Knight in a first attempt to curb crime? the creative licensing with it could be quite extensive as there really is very little known about Knight Rider's real history. I'm thinking of starting a short story fan fic to introduce it and if anyone out here would like to help me think of ideas for a story and write it, I'd love the help. :-)
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Post by themarvelous3 » Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:18 pm

i thought FLAG was a non-government org? maybe not. just didnt know if they would EVER had to "pitch" the car to the governement like in KR2000 movie. either way i think it WOULD be a great idea. wonder if they could get the same guy back to do KARRs voice. i read that william daniels always loved doing the show so HE wouldnt put up a fight...though their wouldnt be too much KITT in it since that car wasnt even finished for the pilot of Knight Rider.

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Post by themarvelous3 » Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:21 pm

...ALSO someone mentioned a "previous driver"....dont know if he drove KARR or not, but it would be interesting to see a lot more of KARR and what all happened to make them deativate him. and, though this would take convincing hasslehoff into growing his afro back, seeing garth grow up and what eventually got him arrested. course they wouldnt have to use david for it...like in smallville with lex and everyone i guess...just use all new actors since they'll be so much younger

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Post by KFCreator » Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:27 pm

I also thought it'd be cool to see Garth growing up and becoming evil and definitely see KARR's development, testing, and the previous driver (or drivers). In answer to your question, in the script version of "Goliath Returns," there was supposed to be a dialogue where KITT states that originally he was activated as part of a government project but didn't stick with it because he found the bureaucracy "too stuffy." So, potentially, William Daniels could come back to do the voice of KITT, albeit towards the end of this new series.
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Post by knightman » Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:30 am

it would be like a young indiana jones thing

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Re: "F.L.A.G."...a new KR series?

Post by knightshade » Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:14 pm

KFCreator wrote:I'm thinking of starting a short story fan fic to introduce it and if anyone out here would like to help me think of ideas for a story and write it, I'd love the help. :-)

Sounds like it could make for a very interesting series (or fic series). I liked the vision of FLAG much better in KR than in TKR where it became sort of a quasi-governmental agency. The FLAG of KR had a lot of charm to it, despite the sort of dubious idea of a group of people running around trying to put away criminals who were above the law by being above the law themselves. But I could see the sort of fits and starts that were hinted at in the series making good fleshed out stories.

If you do decide to write a fic series, feel free to email me if you want to bounce around ideas or if you need a beta read. :wink:

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Post by Benjamin Knight » Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:48 pm

Yeah, but the Star Trek Enterprise prequel has broke a lot of rules. This could work, it could. But like TKR they could end up breaking the rules, and like Enterprise. Who broke a record of rules, and more or less. Rewrote Star Trek.

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:05 pm

Which rules did Trek and TKR break? Enterprise is one of the weaker series in the franchise (improving a bit) but I think it's fairly consistent with the Trek universe. As for TKR, they went in a bit of a different direction than the original series, but I'm not sure they broke any rules. (Unless you count ignoring KR2000, which was probably inevitable).
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Post by Benjamin Knight » Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:30 pm

Well, I could go on and on about Enterprise (were come back to that)

Anyhow I was speaking in a sense that TKR changed the idea of Knight Rider... Maybe it wasn't the best choice... Please dismiss it. Now as for Enterprise, I do like Enterprise, I don't think it is crap. But IMO the weakest of the 5 series. Here are just a example of some of the roles they broke: (you may only notice these if your a hardcore fan :lol: Trekkie! aka ME!)

1. Ferengi were never fully encounterd to early Star Trek TNG... "The Last Outpost"

-> They run into the Ferengi on early Enterprise, they board the ship! "Acquisition"

2. On Enterprise they meet some dangerous and powerful aliens.

-> These aliens are not to be found anywhere later in the timeline

That one is alright, they need new bad guys...

3. THE BORG! Were used, they find the remains of the Borg sphere on Enterprise, the borg reativate and make a run of distruction. Enterprise fights to the death with there new ship.

-> Starfleet first encounted the borg in "Q Who" After "Q" (a magical immortal alien who likes to make the Enterprise run into trouble, he's in a few episodes) warps the ship in contact with them. This is the first that Starfleet sees the borg. They then run into them again in "Best Of Both Worlds" (Part I & II) and then a lots of other times after thoughout the series. TNG and Voyager plus First Contact movie.

4. Timeperal Cold War????

-> Never any metion of this later in time... Ah well

5. Phasers are used, or that "phase cannons" and "phase pistals" These seem to be basic, crap, prequality, prototype PHASERS!

-> Phaser aren't inverted to much later, 50 to 100 years. Backed by Worf's comment in a TNG episode.

6. The Tranporter is used, safely in the show but not often. As it is still "unsafe"

-> The transport wasn't supposed to be fully usable safely to early Star Trek OS

As you can see, there are lots of little errors and some larger. But these are just exanples. The writers may want to right in a little modern Knight Rider technology as they run out of ideas for "older" Knight Rider systems. Like they may need up after the 3rd season added TDM, Turbo Drive Mode, a old school SPM mode to K.I.O.B.B.O.W. (Knight Industries Oringal Budson Burner On Wheels :lol: :lol: )

Alright, thats what I am saying, there is risk for easly slip up when it comes to prequils. Not that there bad, or that it wouldn't be cooler. But it could cuase for some mix ups and errors like in Enterprise.

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Post by themarvelous3 » Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:59 pm

Michael Pajaro wrote:Which rules did Trek and TKR break? Enterprise is one of the weaker series in the franchise (improving a bit)
dont know if you WATCHED any of the previous star treks...they ALL sucked until about the 3rd 4th or 5th season. especially TNG. only the original series was good throughout

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Post by jup » Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:09 am

Unless you totally rewrote the historic timeline of Wilton's lifetime, the series you would wind up with would be a very different kind of show over everything that Knight Rider was. After all, KR revolved around Michael and KITT. Both these characters would pretty much appear in the final episodes of your proposed series. Because, Wilton's world was not the action avenger world that Michael's was. Wilton was more like a wealthy, successful business type that created F.L.A.G. in order to deal with the betrayals that had struck him down earlier in his life. It would be like making Smallville Lionel Luthor the star with Lex the co-star and Clark the special guest star/research case that shows up once every few episodes. You would have a show about the dealings of the corporate world. By the time KARR came into the picture, it would be as alien feeling as the Mouth of the Snake episode was.
Benjamin Knight wrote:Here are just a example of some of the roles they broke: (you may only notice these if your a hardcore fan :lol: Trekkie! aka ME!)

1. Ferengi were never fully encounterd to early Star Trek TNG... "The Last Outpost"

-> They run into the Ferengi on early Enterprise, they board the ship! "Acquisition"
While I have never seen the series Enterprise, encounters with the Ferrengi should have been considered off-limits. They could have easily found a substitute lifeform. After all, TOS had a fair amount of aliens that were barely footnotes.
Benjamin Knight wrote:2. On Enterprise they meet some dangerous and powerful aliens.

-> These aliens are not to be found anywhere later in the timeline

That one is alright, they need new bad guys...
Agreed. Nobody wants to return to the days when Klingon's and Romulans were almost all the bad forces that the Foundation encountered on a regular basis.
Benjamin Knight wrote:3. THE BORG! Were used, they find the remains of the Borg sphere on Enterprise, the borg reativate and make a run of distruction. Enterprise fights to the death with there new ship.
Since I've never seen the episode, I don't know how they handled this. But, technically, it's a possibility...if handled right. Say, the Borg ship was swept away (Voyager-like style) and couldn't make contact with the rest of the Borg. But, if they got there under their own power...bad move. No way that dominating force would send in one ship and abandon the entire section of space for so long.
Benjamin Knight wrote:-> Starfleet first encounted the borg in "Q Who" After "Q" (a magical immortal alien who likes to make the Enterprise run into trouble, he's in a few episodes) warps the ship in contact with them. This is the first that Starfleet sees the borg. They then run into them again in "Best Of Both Worlds" (Part I & II) and then a lots of other times after thoughout the series. TNG and Voyager plus First Contact movie.
Actually, the Borg were already on their way to invading Federation space in that remake of Balance of Terror for TNG. Q forced the Federation to prepare by interfering in advanced. Q plays a God-like role a little too much for Humanity.
Benjamin Knight wrote:5. Phasers are used, or that "phase cannons" and "phase pistals" These seem to be basic, crap, prequality, prototype PHASERS!

-> Phaser aren't inverted to much later, 50 to 100 years. Backed by Worf's comment in a TNG episode.
This could be a tough one. TNG could even be in error. Or, did they fill a loop hole? I don't know. In the original series, they had more then just those hand phasers. The side arm was the most popular choice, by far. So, it seems like Phaser technology wasn't exactly considered new in TOS.
Benjamin Knight wrote:6. The Tranporter is used, safely in the show but not often. As it is still "unsafe"

-> The transport wasn't supposed to be fully usable safely to early Star Trek OS
I hope that at least made the transporter a single room device that eats up tons of interior ship space to work with. (I always considered the TNG notion that even mere one-man training flight craft could harvest a powerful transporter to be far fetched. Though, that notion that the device can be removed or destroyed a little while before the beam reconstructs to be beyond...fetched.)

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Post by themarvelous3 » Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:28 am

by the time you are off the transporter pad though, you are in the pattern buffer (like a cache on a computer) right? so it's ok if the pad you are leaving gets destroyed as long as you've been uploaded to the recieving computer/pad

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Post by Benjamin Knight » Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:25 pm

Good points there jup! Yes, heres the only TNG/Enterprise invasion thing.

1. In the old days the Enterprise distory borg ship. Just after they send a message to the Delta Quad. for a invasion fleet.

2. Invasion fleet gets message 300 years later, TNG time.

3. The cube stars on its marry way to kill earth.

4. Q sends Enterprise D as a preview...

5. The Cube reachs UFOP "Best Of Both Worlds" Same cube as before.

But the deal is, the borg were never heard of in the federation until the Q deal... How come these old Enterprise records of the attack never came to mind. Q said they had never "encountered" these ceatures before...

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Post by KFCreator » Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:33 pm

Jup--I can see what you mean but I think there is plenty that could keep the show somewhat action-oriented. I mean, Wilton faced so much adversity from both a corporate perspective and from criminals who probably sought to eliminate him from the picture several times. And, we all know that Michael wasn't the first man that was hired by Wilton to battle crime and of course logically KARR probably wasn't Wilton's first attempt at creating an artificial intelligence. The great thing about the KR universe is that it's so shady that you can pretty much fill in the gaps how ever you like. Also, I wasn't thinking of going so back into Knight Rider's past that we ended up starting a new series when Devon was part of the RAF during WWII, I was thinking more along the lines of 5-10 years before the events of "Knight of the Phoenix." In addition, since there could be so much history to cover, maybe the plot line in my stories could advance by a few years with each new story, if I decided to do it as a miniseries or something. I dunno, but I think covering how KITT and KARR and Knight Industries came to be would be awesome to explore, not to mention the history of Wilton and Tanya Walker, Garthe's turn to the "dark side." And I don't think continuity problems would come up simply because there aren't too many rules you have to worry about breaking.

Off-topic, and just to kinda put this under wraps, being an avid TRek fan myself, I have to contest that Enterprise really hasn't broken any continuity rules, even if they have slightly bent them at times. Here are my conterarguments:
1. As for the ferengi, it could be that Archer never makes aformal record of running into them, or maybe the records somehow get lost over the years. Any number of things could be used to explain that plot device.
2. It's never proven that the aliens encountered in Enterprise don't exist in the future. It could just be that we never hear of them or see them in TOS, TNG, DS9 or VOY.
3. Okay, the Borg is relatively easy to explain if you paid attention to what Archer says at the end of the episode. This is a classic chicken-and-the-egg situation. We get the impression in "Q, Who" that that was the Federation's first encounter with the Borg, however since the Borg travel back in time in "First Contact," and the sphere they travel in explodes, it's plausible that some Borg and debris from their ship make it down to Earth. Now, those Borg are from the 24th century but are now in the 22nd century. When they reawaken and try to takeover Enterprise, they are successful in the process of sending a message to the Borg of that century in the Delta quadrant, alerting them that Earth could be useful. the Borg of the 22nd century then start preparing for their incursion into Federation space about 2 centuries later and when the TNG crew run into the cube in "Q, Who," we can presume the reason those Borg are headed for Earth is because they received the signal from the Borg that Archer encountered 2 centuries before. So, it's a case of causality. Got it? LOL
4. The Temporal Cold War exists in a later century than any of the other Trek series, so it's only natural that the TNG, DS9, and VOY crews have no knowledge of this until several centuries later.
5. The "phase pistol" is a predecessor to the Phaser, but it should be noted they are not exactly the same thing. Phase pistols could be considered the first "phaser" if you so wish but they don't actually call them that, so for technicality's sake, theyre not phasers.
6. The transporters are brand new to Archer's crew and are very unstable still. They only work sometimes, and aren't really designed for transporting people, just cargo mainly. If they're not supposed to be completely safe until TOS, then no continuity has been broken yet.

So, in my view, Enterprise hasn't broken any continuity rules, just slightly bent them in some cases. And for those of you who haven't checked out Enterprise much this season really ought to because it's gotten much better in my opinion. I'm hooked on it now, and although I risk being crucified for it, I LOVE the theme song! (I can just hear the gasps now! LOL)
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Post by Benjamin Knight » Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:02 pm

I do like the theme, good words in there...

Anyhow, I fully get the borg deal, I understand its the cube from first contact and stuff... Just think it would be strange the a ton of logs weren't made , and records saved.

You have made points... But overal, they have broken some rules. I just don't think the series is well write IMO...

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:48 pm

KFCreator wrote:I LOVE the theme song! (I can just hear the gasps now! LOL)
WHAT?!!! GASP indeed!!
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Post by knighttwothousand » Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:16 am

AN EXCELLENT IDEA!
Id love to see F.L.A.G....wilton knight, etc..
BUT, alas, it would be extremely dull without edward mulhare

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Post by jup » Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:26 pm

I have a notion that this early Enterprise probably relies on it's computer(s) for all data record keeping and such. Answer is simple. A space anonamy causes damages and erases such records. No one bothers to re-type (or re-vocalize) those records. Case closed.

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