Why is the KR fandom so divisive?

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PunkMaister
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Why is the KR fandom so divisive?

Post by PunkMaister » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:45 pm

Seriously of all the Fandom communities I've joined over the years be it Trek, Stargate, NBSG, Babylon 5 etc. this one is by far the most divisive one I've ever encountered! Sometimes it feels like going to SD.net and see Warsies and Trekkies duke it out!
What is so sad about tbis is that we KR fans had for a while a very tangible TV show, not tupperware, not photos or fan art from a convention or the customary KITT prop at some unnamed car show but a a true honest to God TV show!

NBC axes it as it has done with many other shows despite their level of success or not and what does it happen?

Most seem to go like this "Good Riddance! Now I can go back to my KR Tupperware parties for the rest of my life"

And I absolutely loathe how the Purists treat the KR08 fans as if they are GARBAGE!

The sad thing is those are just about forcing those that want to save the current show to just hold up their hands and give up. I've never seen such a thing in any other fandom community.

Those are my 2 cents on the situation...

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Re: Why is the KR fandom so divisive?

Post by Matthew » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:21 am

Punkmaister,

I think it’s important to note that comments like this are a big part of why the community has been so heavily divided for much of its existence. If it isn’t comments criticising the things that have kept this fandom alive for 26 years, like our “Tupperware Conventions,” then its egotistical individuals that are looking to be the publically recognised personification of Michael Knight.

Some of these individuals have groups of supporters who oppose anyone that dares to stand in the way of their chosen leader, and others are just disliked on the whole.

Belittling everything that has maintained this fandom over the years is not the way to go about confronting the lack of cohesion though, as it’s likely to risk the ire of many of the different camps within the community.

Matt
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Re: Why is the KR fandom so divisive?

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:05 am

I was going to keep this short but that isn't going to happen.

Punk, you need to get a grip. People have different opinions and your going off like you have and have in the past is no better than the "haters" you liked going after. At one point I was jumping on everyone who went after the pilot, I defended the hell out of it before it aired and even after it did I defended some choices and made excuses for where it was lacking among other things. Though TBH it doesn't mean I didn't have my own issues either and the whole "Ford commercial" thing I was worried about turned out to be justified. But anyway, I defended KR coming back as a series but as the series started, actually when we saw Attack mode, that really started to waver and not too far in I could no longer defend the choices being made, I'll still defend the cast and MKF (who did bust their asses with what they were given and working the kinks out) but on the creative end, I just can't. Just because it was called Knight Rider doesn't mean I have to be a blind fanboy and think it's the greatest thing ever because it wasn't and it was fatally flawed.

In addition, many communities are heavily divided or aligned in not liking a direction their franchise has taken. You'll find plenty of Star Wars fans who love or hate the new trilogy and a lot more that hate what Lucas has done with the original with the changes he's made. Same with Star Trek, there are many out there who dislike and downright hate Voyager and Enterprise. Not to mention those who hate the new movie or even those that still are divided over the original series and Next Generation. This is something that happens in ALL fandoms that have a dedicated fanbase, whether they span generations or not. KR however, unlike Star Trek or Star Wars has only had one single success so is there any wonder why those fans (who still outnumber new fans) favor the original series over the new? Personally I wish it would have a second season to hopefully finally get it right but that's not going to happen in today's TV world.

I've also not seen very many old fans here attacking new fans (aside from certain idiots who aren't here anymore), I've seen a lot of you going after people however. What I have seen are old fans mostly explaining why they didn't like the new show and many being genuinely angry in the direction it took, I know I'm pissed at the choices NBC and GST made that were a big part in killing the show before even the first episode aired. There are exceptions with certain idiots who haven't contributed much of anything here other than repeating the same stupid crap over and over again like "KITT should have been a Trans-Am with William Daniels" and other junk like that. But those who have an actual gripe, those people have just as much of a right to complain as those who like it.

I know you loved the new show, but many of us were enormously disappointed in how this show was handled. The fans deserved better for playing a significant role in keeping KR viable after over 20 years. Not only that but the cast deserved better, the people who worked behind the scenes deserved better, even the writers, well those who actually wrote decent episodes deserved better. Hell, seeing how NBC and the powers that be treated Hasselhoff, even HE deserved better. You know how NBC, primarily Ben Silverman saw Knight Rider? Not as something that could be brought back as a quality show, but simply as an hour long commercial every week with "product integration" and that's aside from the Ford deal. So yeah, uh old fans have reasons for being a little bitter.

There's good reason why NBC is in last place, well not really last place (even Telemundo kicks NBC's ass sometimes) but I don't consider CW to be a broadcast network (even if they are) hell I barely consider it a network period. Look what they did with Journeyman (a better show than what the new KR was) with putting a eight or nine o'clock show on at 10PM on a Monday with a floundering Heroes it's a network needs a complete overhaul and mass firings. Hell, the only reason why Chuck is coming back (another show IMO that's turned out better than KR, especially the writing) only because of a deal with Subway. Friday Night Lights is only coming back because of DirectTV. Hell, I'm sure that if Ford wanted another year, KR would be coming back too if Ford paid a good amount of money, only problem is that the show was so expensive which probably makes that unrealistic.
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Re: Why is the KR fandom so divisive?

Post by FuzzieDice » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:49 am

It's not just here. There are other fandoms and communities that have the same thing happening. Some communities have more and some have less than others. But it does happen no matter where you go. That's the internet for you. Happened even back in the days of online services and BBSs. Flame wars happen.

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Re: Why is the KR fandom so divisive?

Post by Stylez » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:16 pm

I was going to post but after reading what PHOENIXZERO had to say I don't think I could contribute anything further, great post man. I'm a diehard fan of the original series, nothing will ever be better, KR08 was a novelty and I took it as such. I think a lot of people had unrealistic expectations of what KR08 would/could have been, it was fun but it will never be something I'll go back to because of "nostalgia". I do plan on buying the dvd set just because I have to...it's got Knight Rider in the title lol :good: So let me ask you this PHOENIXZERO, do you plan on buying the boxset or was the show really truly that bad for you?

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Re: Why is the KR fandom so divisive?

Post by jeremy223 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:43 pm

I rarely post on the board,been reading for years though,but I really want to comment on this because its bothered me for some time.

Folks like me who just really didn't care much for the new show get labelled as haters and close minded and stuck in the 80s. You always hear "If you don't like it then don't watch it". Thats fine,we don't watch and the show gets cancelled,we get blamed. "If only you haters would have come out of the 80s and been true fans and watched the show would have continued." You can't have it both ways.

No one should be called names for their opinion about a tv show whether it be positive or negative. There's no need for that in a healthy debate. I will say that being a Knight Rider fan doesn't mean that you have to support anything just because Knight Rider is in the title. If you just accept anything TPTB throw at you,they will eventually stop putting out a quality program because they know you'll watch anything. This is exactly what happened with Star Trek.Ratings went down for Voyager and Enterprise and TPTB realized we won't watch just anything.Star Trek went away for awhile and now is back and its HUGE!

Not saying this will happen to Knight Rider too,but it could. Bottom line is enjoy the incarnations of Knight Rider that you like and ignore the others. No matter which series or movie is your favorite,you are still a Knight Rider fan. Unless you like Knight Rider 2010. :wink:

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Re: Why is the KR fandom so divisive?

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:07 pm

Will I buy the box set? Yeah I probably will. Was it truly that bad for me though? Personally, up until the end, it felt like a bit of a train wreck, some episodes I liked over all, some I liked on first view but didn't hold up when I re-watched them and I watched every episode more than once. Things got better (sans Knight to King's Pawn) after episode nine with the transition to the retooled episodes though several of those episodes seemed like they could have just as easily been from earlier in the season and remained the same with no real change to the plot. I do wish the show had a season two where maybe, just maybe things could really turn around and get it right because I liked the cast, just wish they had better, stronger material to work with and someone in charge who didn't try to turn it into their vision of what KR should be, unfortunately the "product integration" would still have to probably be in your face but it could work. It just sucks that NBC went and blew it, that's what I'm angry and even a little bitter about.
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Re: Why is the KR fandom so divisive?

Post by rwmu » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:14 pm

I think that with a couple of obvious exceptions the KR board is actually quite relaxed, if you want to see real fighting go and look at the BSG boards Old Series vs New Series is pretty bloody, same with Classic Doctor Who vs Nu Doctor Who. Of course for a real good smack down DS9 vs B5 has to be the most violent.

KR is one of the more consistant fan groups quite gentle and calm, its just a shame we get so little in the way of cool stuff to buy, the studios could make a nice turn with KR merchandise.
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Re: Why is the KR fandom so divisive?

Post by PunkMaister » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:54 pm

rwmu wrote:I think that with a couple of obvious exceptions the KR board is actually quite relaxed, if you want to see real fighting go and look at the BSG boards Old Series vs New Series is pretty bloody, same with Classic Doctor Who vs Nu Doctor Who. Of course for a real good smack down DS9 vs B5 has to be the most violent.

KR is one of the more consistant fan groups quite gentle and calm, its just a shame we get so little in the way of cool stuff to buy, the studios could make a nice turn with KR merchandise.


Which BSG boards are referring too? The ones I know are 2 one dedicated exclusively to the old show and it's revival in one form or another and in which even mentioning RDM gets you banned so fast your head would spin, (I've never become a member there but have read their rules) and the other is one is an NBSG board that has forums for the TOS show and Galactica 1980. and that kind of debate is not present there


jeremy223 wrote:Folks like me who just really didn't care much for the new show get labelled as haters and close minded and stuck in the 80s. You always hear "If you don't like it then don't watch it". Thats fine,we don't watch and the show gets cancelled,we get blamed. "If only you haters would have come out of the 80s and been true fans and watched the show would have continued." You can't have it both ways.


Nobody is saying that! But there were a lot of Haters that wanted and dare I say prayed that the show would be canned and are probably having parties as we speak because now the franchise will never be on the tube ever again nor in the movies in the foreseeable future and that means they can keep the franchise as being exclusively their own with their Tupperware convention parties and the occasional prop at a car show.


jeremy223 wrote: No one should be called names for their opinion about a tv show whether it be positive or negative. There's no need for that in a healthy debate. I will say that being a Knight Rider fan doesn't mean that you have to support anything just because Knight Rider is in the title. If you just accept anything TPTB throw at you,they will eventually stop putting out a quality program because they know you'll watch anything. This is exactly what happened with Star Trek.Ratings went down for Voyager and Enterprise and TPTB realized we won't watch just anything.Star Trek went away for awhile and now is back and its HUGE!

Not saying this will happen to Knight Rider too,but it could. Bottom line is enjoy the incarnations of Knight Rider that you like and ignore the others. No matter which series or movie is your favorite,you are still a Knight Rider fan. Unless you like Knight Rider 2010. :wink:


I personally liked the TOS and KR08 :good: KR 2010 and TKR should not be considered part of the franchise...

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Re: Why is the KR fandom so divisive?

Post by Super Flash » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:41 am

Hello There Everyone, :D

Here is another post that I need to address before retiring for the night. This from an earlier post in which PunkMaister responded to Jeremy223 post.

I am re posting part of it and responding to PunkMaister response.

"jeremy223 wrote:
Folks like me who just really didn't care much for the new show get labelled as haters and close minded and stuck in the 80s. You always hear "If you don't like it then don't watch it". That's fine,we don't watch and the show gets cancelled,we get blamed. "If only you haters would have come out of the 80s and been true fans and watched the show would have continued." You can't have it both ways.

Good Points. As for me I like all versions of Knight Rider that were made and aired since 1982. I know question this response: :good:

"Nobody is saying that! But there were a lot of Haters that wanted and dare I say prayed that the show would be canned and are probably having parties as we speak because now the franchise will never be on the tube ever again nor in the movies in the foreseeable future and that means they can keep the franchise as being exclusively their own with their Tupperware convention parties and the occasional prop at a car show."

I am not sure what you are trying to say here but, one thing bothers me and that you are saying on most of the posts and threads that Knight Rider is dead this and the franchise is dead that. Why? Why do you have this mind set that Knight Rider will never be back? You have no proof or right to state that. I would like believe that Knight Rider will be back some time in the future like a year or two down the road. Maybe I misunderstood your response here but, in other posts and threads you seem pretty set that Knight Rider is done and the franchise is dead. I like other fans here refuse to accept nor believe that. As I have stated before the show is not done and neither is the franchise. As for the topic of this thread I agree with most of the response and I respect a lot of the opinions even though I may not like nor agree with it. I believe that Knight Rider fandom is so divisive is because of our love of the show and our different opinions on the show good or bad. I am not out to ruffle any feathers here and not to start a debate here just state and opinion and get some answers. 8)

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Re: Why is the KR fandom so divisive?

Post by FordFilly82 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:41 pm

There are many fandoms who are very dedicated and passionate about their respective franchises; Star Trek, BSG, and Buffy. Now Buffy's fans can get down right violent with regards as to who Buffy should/is sleeping with! And Don't even get me started on the Angel series! whew! You're either Bangel (Cangel if U watch Angel) or Spuffy with no room for middle fans like me! LOL

Anyway, as a newer fan I have a somewhat skewed view of Kr, mostly b/c I was a toddler when it was on air. But the myth of "One man can make a difference" stayed with me. The mythos of TOS is what drew me back to it after the release of the 08 pilot. I remember the TV Movie back in '91 w/ DH but didn't like it too much. TKR is barely a blip on my TV viewing radar.
But the idea of a talking car saving the world was cool. And yeah, a BIG draw for me to watch KR08 was b/c Kitt was now a Mustang. For me it was a Ford lover's dream! lol
And yeah, the series has/had it problems (enter your reasons here), and they *tried* to fix them, but in the end the network is the one who lost faith not the fans necessarily. I mean, we threw such a fit about the "terrorist of the week" storylines, and they tried to fix it. There was just a lot bad timing where 08 is involved, and I and alot of other fans wish that KR08 had another season.

The thing I try to take with me with regards to KR08 is this: If you never heard of KR before now and became a fan of the TOS, the 08, or both, then YAY! that's MORE fans than we had back in 2007! And I'm proof that! :good:
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