Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by WIBoomer1 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:44 pm

Let's put the pieces together:

1. The Knight Autocybernetic Roving Robotic exoskeleton is the classified project that was started before the KITT project. KI3T spelled out the acronym for Mike and Sarah.

2. Torres was on board with that project, and knew EXACTLY what Charles was talking about when he said he didn't "want another KARR incident."

3. KI3T has the ability to self-program, evident by the things he is learning...the cowboy movies, the conjunctions he's saying, the ability to come up with his own costume, and the trust he has in Michael (btw, my color was off, and i thought the stripe color was orange..which makes more sense than pink, but i defer to the breast cancer awareness thing by Ford). Remember that TOS Michael was hard-coded into KI2T's life-preservation programming as the person to take care of. KI3T seems to have more tagged people, but he is forming his "bond" with Michael.

4. 82 KARR had the ability to learn as well...per Wiki, it states that the character of KARR had changed from Trust Doesn't Rust to KITT vs KARR. KI2T also learned...so this is a valid point stated, but shouldn't really be a reason why Graiman places the self-destruct program in KI3T...could have easily stated it was placed to not let KI2T get into the wrong hands.

5. KI3T had found files regarding 08 KARR, but nothing on KI2T, or any mention of the 82 KARR. This tells me that they are re-imagining the origin of the Knight 2000 series...

6. The 08 KARR is a starting point for KI3T...the sequence of screens shown to Mike indicate that it would start out as a Mustang, and morph into the robot at the end. Didn't care for the cockpit-chest of 08 KARR, begging to ask how a Pilot of 08 KARR where they would sit, and in what position (like Voltron, does the cockpit rotate so the pilot remains horizontal???). This goes in the mass of KI3T thing...that the whole vehicle is fluid, and can change mass and appearance for mode.

7. The cyborg thing...WTF!!!??? I really thought that they were going to say the fake Zoe WAS KARR...that he had the ability to morph into human shape (And now Zoe joins the elite doppelganger club in KR...KITT & KARR, Michael & Garth). So by saying that KARR is more a cyborg, this indicates that there was some organic interfacing...and by Michael deja-vuing KARR...I agree that Michael has some link to 08 KARR...maybe it was found out by the governement the parentage of Mike Traceur, and thus, he might have special ability to pilot 08 KARR (why makes NO sense whatsoever). You'd think a Fighter Pilot would have more ability to control a large complex vehicle than a Special Forces member.

So...what does this mean? I'm thinking you can kiss the 82 KARR CPU goodbye. There's simply no need for a KARR mk1 which in our some previous thoughts would have to happen. Which also means...is there a need for K2000? Sadly, I don't think so. I'll bet you'll see Hoff bantering with KI3T about the differences between KI2T and KI3T rather than KI2T showing up as a T/A. I think maybe you'll see KI2T show up ala TKR, as a processor based CPU, allowing William Daniels to voice KITT without having the need for a T/A.

One last thing, did anyone else not get the full audio transmitted to them? I think this has happened before...I lost the main channels right after Michael tells Sarah to stop the downloading...I had to go to the NBC site to watch the rest of it.

I really did think this episode worked well...until they started talking KARR...then it went kaboom!

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by KRAvengerII » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:53 pm

My_Friend_KITT wrote:I just re-watched it and two things I found cute.
#1- Thing from Addams Family- loved Billy's reactions
#2- The Pixar lamps- How cute when they lowered their lamps
I could've sworn I posted my reply, but oh well, Thanks for reminding me. Those two lamps remind me of Gypsy from "Mystery Science theatre 3000." i know they're trying to sell the "Transformers" angle, but c'mon! they get more lines than Charles and Carrie combined!
KITT: I walked right into that one, didn't I?
Michael: More like Turbo Boosted.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by KnightINSTINCT » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:00 pm

Okay, can you all forget about KARR?

Guess what I found. Look at the episode, 38 minutes and 50 seconds into it.

Pretty neat, and about time.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by klang31 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:09 pm

Here’s my theory:

Mike was KARR’s driver. I get this feeling that Mike was the ‘test pilot’ in Iraq. Perhaps his memory was wiped after KARR went crazy and started killing ‘friendly soldiers’. I think the military probably wanted a new tech weapon and wanted to put a special forces officer in charge. Whether they took the original KARR or it’s a new one I don’t know but how scarred would Mike be if he was the one ‘driving’ KARR as it slaughtered his friends. Perhaps the soldiers from the first episode wanted payback for the deaths of their friends.

Just a theory. Can’t wait to see where this story is going. I’m wondering if every episode is connected in ways we just can’t see yet.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Rjaniz » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:14 pm

WIBoomer1 wrote:super long post that sums up that the new KARR is not the Original KARR :lol:
I'm in agreement. The story itself, based on no knowledge of the previous series, is actually really cool, and makes just about total sense. The idea alone has tons of potential and it makes a very good villain for both Mike and KITT.

What you all (and myself included) are getting hung up on is they used the name KARR for this new character, and it probably isn't the KARR from the original series . This really brings up to a LOT of head scratching questions dealing with the character's "origin", probably very few with satisfying answers. Even more questions will be asked if this KARR IS the original one.

I think the "powers that be" goofed on what they were doing with this one. Had they named this character something else, I don't think it would be causing the issues it is causing now. I know I certainly wouldn't be having a problem. It's only the name "KARR" that I'm stumbling over and that I can find any fault with this episode. ALL complaints for this lead right back to the name KARR.

That all said, I don't think any newcomer to KR universe cares. It's only us, those with the knowledge of the past, that are even remotely upset.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:28 pm

I hope that like others have said, that this is mostly the military's doing after Knight Industries apparently was at the mercy of the Government, got a hold of KARR's AI Unit and whatever role Charles had wasn't done willingly. Maybe Charles tried reprogramming KARR, thought he succeeded but then KARR was able to reprogram himself and undo what Charles did. If this is meant to be the same AI unit/CPU, I'm sure that after 26+ years KARR could have evolved beyond his original programming, even when he was nothing but his AI Unit/CPU.

I might be forgiving since KITT said that there might be information on KARR he doesn't have access to, hopefully that is an opening for this AI to be the original KARR and not just the past involvement Charles and Mike might have had.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by steveyertz » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:00 pm

Greetings all!


First I have to say that I grew up with the original Knight Rider and have been a fan pretty much my whole life, and have been watching the new one since it started. Obviously I was very excited when I saw postings on here that KARR would be returing! So when KARR was mentioned early in last nights episode I was pleased. That being said as many of you have mentioned it went down hill from there. However we don't know the whole story yet, so maybe....it's not as bad as it seems. Before I get into any specifics let me just make some general comments about the show that will set up my thoughts. First of all the creators of the show have made it clear that this is not a remake of the old Knight Rider, but a continuation of the original, which I think is great! I enjoy the comments thrown in about the old series(Devon and Bonnie)etc..., we need that and more in my opinion it helps validate the show! I would love nothing more than to see the Hoff and KITT to show up here and there. But the KARR thing last night really bothered me deeply. Everyone knows who and what KARR is in Knight Rider history, and the show is a continuation of that history right? So the only way I can see this working out for us the long term fans is that Dr. Graiman built this new cyborg prototype thing, it is stolen and someone puts the original KARR intelligence into it and lets it tear up the town. I will not except that Graiman who if I'm not wrong was responceable for the first KARR and KITT for that matter would build a prototype and say lets name it KARR. I mean how dumb would that be?
Not to mention to all us fan's when we heard KARR is returning why did we get so excited? Because we wanted it to be the KARR we all knew, and furthermore it validates the new show with the old one! I realize that this is not the old KR, but if you are going to go out of the way to make it tied to the old then you have to follow the history.

Don't get me wrong I want the new show to live a full and happy life and have really appreciated that those involved in the show seem to honestly be listening to us the fans! And I have seen huge improvements made since the begining and hope that it continues!

Nice to be a part of this all and hope my thought stur up others.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by HyperCaz » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:05 pm

I really like that idea, Phoenix, about KARR's CPU being put into the...erm... mechwarrior look-alike. I can't fathom why they would want a walking robot thing, which seems to me clearly less controllable and more likely to stomp around on things...probably why they went back to the simple car design. If KI3T morphs into a robot for a KARR fight, I will be of two minds - repulsion and absolute love. :D

Wonder how fake!Zoe got into HQ in the first place... hmm. Don't they check how many times one person enters or something? Sloppy - but I bet they will now.

Adored Billy in this! Esp. his costume. ^_^ I wonder what Mike and Sarah would have dressed up as for Halloween???

(also, I actually thought it was great how Mike had the spider appear to stop the mushy moment)
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by DevonStyles » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:37 pm

As far as not mentioning Karr as a trans am, I think it might come down to the real life senerio that Trans-am's were pretty much always a better sports car then the mustang. Why remind people of that? Even today as a trans am owner my car is a 8 years old ram air and I have not found but 1 or 2 new mustangs that are willing to run with me. They get ate up... lol

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by KITT Season 4 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:41 pm

Maybe the reason the military used him is cause hes not programmed to preserve human life and they though they could use that

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Knight Racer » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:04 pm

Anyone watch the tv series Smallville?We all know how Smallville's Clark Kent met Lex Luthor in Smallville instead of Metropolis.He fought Bizarro before he even went to Metropolis,met Myxezpiklec in smallville,met the entire Justice League before he became superman with the suit.Well I think this is something very similar.They are basicly doing what we are all used to in TOS inconsitencyafter inconsistency.Just like They are basicly rewriting the original KR series as they go by changing it more and more.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by pheonix_knight » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:26 pm

This ep brought TOO many questions, although a decent ride of a story (if it had been a stand alone new episode of a new series but its a sequel with season long story arcs...)

Where does the Mike/deja vu about KARR thing come from????

Mike (as far as TOS is concerned) NEVER met KARR...

KARR being a cyborg...??? Unless KARR also had a 'mainframe' life like KITT before being installed in a vehicle but its a heck of a stretch for TOS fans, bearing in mind new fans wouldnt care who KARR was...

6/10 for that one storyline folks. 9/10 for the VFX guys because they were as they should be.

Oh and now we've seen Ki3t as a convertible can we get the ejector seat back???

The impression i got from Kitt being downloaded was that they NEEDED the mustang shell for KARR to be installed (which up until this episode, there'd been no confusion as to why that would be as TOS fans would remember the T/A was destroyed but the AI survived) so why show the audience the cyborg idea....????

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by blowersho » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:36 pm

I have not posted in this thread because I have not had anything good to say about any of the episodes so far but this I like. It was devoid of any action sequences but the K3000 was the focal point as he should be in every episode, no romantic nonsense either which is a bonus.

The K3000 is changing, becoming more his "own" person and was actually defiant towards his creator. I do not know if this is a new KARR or somehow linked to the original prototype but I like it, he looks like a monster and is a murderer the perfect anti-KITT. KARR almost looks like a child of Skynet and looks kind of similar to the cyborg at the end of the Terminator Salvation trailer.

Looking forward to the KARR episodes.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by kittxthexcat » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:41 pm

Ya know what'd be actually cooler than Karr coming back?(and being actually Karr, not a "cyborg", which by the way would be hard since a cyborg is half-human half-robot) Kitt turning INTO Karr. Sort of like Killer Kitt, but not...like Karr actually takes over Kitt, or Kitt decides to be more like Karr (Maybe like iRobot and the undeniable logic thing). That would be awesome.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by pheonix_knight » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:49 pm

Something that did not add up though...

Billy, Zoe, Alex, Charles, Sarah and Carrie are the highest ranking operatives in the SSC (Mike, of course, being the field op). So thats 7 personnel out well over 1000 (cant remember the exact amount in the 'complex') but Billy still identifies himself during an emergency situation on the phone to someone who is any one of a 1000 ( or so) people as "Billy", not "Norgan" or "Mr Morgan" or "Dr Morgan" etc...

His character needs more self esteem as he is one 7 people who get to directly interract with "the KITT project".

To the viewer he may be Billy who works in the "KiTTCave" but to others in the building there should be a different line of address....

Anyone get what I mean???

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by MikeBKnight » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:01 pm

I agree. He claims there is 1700 people in the complex. Must be one BIG complex lol :) As for the whole "KARR" thing, I found it good that they made a reference to KARR, but in all fairness, I think that's all it was, a reference. New show, new KARR. I found this episode very confusing. I sure hope KARR returns as an actual automobile though, and not some "thing" out of Terminator.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Renegade94 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:18 pm

I thought this was by far one of the best episodes to date, even though KITT was in the plane the whole episode, I really thought it was important for him to start learning about emotions as well as trust. I really believe the bond between him and Michael has grown stronger each and every episode just as the bond between the old Kitt and Michael! I can not wait to see what they have in store for us as to KARR, I don't feel that they must revisit the old KARR as to the way he appeared back in the old series. I am quite sure there will be plenty of tie ins to the old series as we go along, so all I can say to the loyal followers of the original is give this new show a chance and stop bashing it for not making enough references back to the old show! I trust GST and the writing team to continue to give us a great new show and stroll down memory lane once and a while when it really applies. Last but not least hey Devon, I have nothing personal against Trans-Ams as I was a lover of the old show and car, but to even think that Trans-Am is a much better sports car and a stronger muscle car then the Mustang through out history, I think you might need a little lesson on Muscle cars, after all It seems as the Trans-Am is no where to be found these days and as for the Mustang, well lets just say that the American Icon is still running strong! :good:

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by klang31 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:40 pm

Going back to my theory. I wonder if Charles used KARR’s ‘base code’ when he was programming KI3T? Perhaps that’s how KI3T had files on Mike in the second episode because they somehow were still inside his ‘base code’. (I’m only using the term base code because other people far smarter then me will know the right term). Again this would explain why the soldiers where after the unbreakable cipher in the first episode. To restore KI3T to KARR-like personality.

Also if Mike was KARR’s original driver then this could explain the ‘cybernetic’ ‘cyborg’ mentions in the episode. Perhaps this KARR needed a driver to make sure it didn’t go bad like the original KARR. Maybe linked somehow. But something went wrong. Maybe Mike’s affection for KARR (just like his with KI3T) made him ‘evil’. Therefore at the end of the season Mike becomes ‘evil Mike’ and Knight Industries must call in the help of the original Michael Knight and KITT.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by cloudkitt » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:44 pm

Personally, I think you're all crazy. The show has already acknowledged the existence of a prior KITT that was a Trans Am. Why the hell would they make up a new KARR when the original series clearly left them an opening to the old one.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Renegade94 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:54 pm

Just having some fun with the Mustang Haters in this forum! :good:
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:05 pm

Knight Racer wrote:Anyone watch the tv series Smallville?We all know how Smallville's Clark Kent met Lex Luthor in Smallville instead of Metropolis.He fought Bizarro before he even went to Metropolis,met Myxezpiklec in smallville,met the entire Justice League before he became superman with the suit.Well I think this is something very similar.They are basicly doing what we are all used to in TOS inconsitencyafter inconsistency.Just like They are basicly rewriting the original KR series as they go by changing it more and more.

I disagree, Smallville has absolutely nothing to do with the continuity of the source material, it's an entirely different universe. Unlike the new series which the people involved have stated time after time that it's a continuation of the original series.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Kittsdriver91 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:26 pm

hey just checking out disscussions on the episode "Knight of the Living Dead" and I am surprised that of a KARR reference and also there is one question why KARR in the blueprints is a "transformer" ? that has surprises me but the TOS shows KARR as a car but it mention the KARR'S programming is of self-preservation but also saw the KNIGHT on the license plate but too many questions included and also what other questions that are still to come. :kitt2:

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by NeoRanger » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:58 am

KI3T has the ability to self-program, evident by the things he is learning
That's learning, not self-programming. Self-programming would be if he hard-codes new directives in his CPU. Kind of like RoboCop self-coding in his prime-directives that killing tacos at noon is a crime.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by knightprobe89 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:07 am

sorry to be a kill joy but this episode for me was very boring and slow, i didn't like the fact that kitt was on the airplane the whole episode,although i must admitt that kitts personality is getting better, i dont know whats going on but they seem to be doing very few stunts in this new series, turbo boost has dissappeared after the second episode, i think viewers are starting to notice because the ratings have dropped to 5.3 million viewers, thats a loss of 2 million viewers.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by boynamedtacoma » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:02 am

I love the fact that Knight Rider is back on the air. As far as plot lines and classic KR tie-ins, let's all just be patient and trust Gary Scott Thomas. He did great with The Fast and The Furious and Las Vegas, so be patient. If he bombs it, let him have it. To quote the song from the end of A Hard Day's Knight "Have a little faith in me" :kittconv: It really was great to KITT (3K) as a convertible, wasn't it?

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