K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

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K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by Phoenix » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:21 pm

At the beginning I was annoyed K.I.T.T. couldn't catch up to the red exotic european car without using "attack mode." The red car wasn't that far ahead. A Shelby GT500 KR can do 0-60 in 4.1 and the 1/4 in 11.92 (with drag radials). The car can probably top out (stock) at around 200 mph. So the red exotic should be too much faster.

In the original series all Michael Knight had to do was hit the "pursuit" button and floor it for K.I.T.T. to catch up. Obviously later in the series they added SPM which gave K.I.T.T. a bit more speed, but all in all K.I.T.T. didn't need it when racing another car.

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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by DevonStyles » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:08 pm

To quote the episode "A mustang... Ohhh I'm scared" lol I got quite a chuckle out of that one. :kittspin:
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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by Army_F_Body » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:39 pm

The Mustang comment kind of reminded me of the 2 preppy boys in the original Knight in Shinning Armor episode. They make the comment that Michael must be crazy to think he can escape them in that "domestic piece of junk" (or something to that effect). I think he would have talked trash, maybe even peed himself laughing seeing some one in a TA trying to go against him with what ever that thing was he had. No offense to the car, I love mine, but we are talking about a 25+ year old 120hp car. However, the KI2K would have dusted that thing no problem, it was kind of sad to see the KI3K struggling to keep up.

This has always been my main issue with the new car, the old one was so much better. In the first episode wouldn't a pyroclasitc lamination have protected Mike and Sarah from the heat generated by the napalm? Seems the new car can't do anything without Attack Mode. I hope at least he can turbo boost in standard form. Maybe the standing still turbo boost is unique to attack mode but without the side pides in standard mode I kinda doubt that he can do it without a flashy CGI transformation. At least that's one thing he has on the KI2K. I recall reading somewhere that KITT had to be traveling at at least 45mph to turbo boost so doing one at a dead stop is kind of impressive.

I get the impression that they are starting over with this new car. Graiman designed the KI2K ver. 1. Over the seasons Bonnie and April went way beyond that basic design. If Graiman was out of the picture since KITT was first activated, then the KI3K may only be an improvement based on that first initial form of the KI2K. I feel over time KI3K will evolve into a superior machine, and that's good, it makes for better plots if the machine has some bugs to work out. The MBS I feel no longer exists which is why we have the nano-shell.

I think the reality is that none of the writers are so well versed in the TOS as we are so they may end up treading similar ground or not hitting certain points (like the napalm that wouldn't have given the KI2K any problems as far as I can see).
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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by Rockatteer » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:34 pm

Phoenix wrote:At the beginning I was annoyed K.I.T.T. couldn't catch up to the red exotic european car without using "attack mode." The red car wasn't that far ahead. A Shelby GT500 KR can do 0-60 in 4.1 and the 1/4 in 11.92 (with drag radials). The car can probably top out (stock) at around 200 mph. So the red exotic should be too much faster.

In the original series all Michael Knight had to do was hit the "pursuit" button and floor it for K.I.T.T. to catch up. Obviously later in the series they added SPM which gave K.I.T.T. a bit more speed, but all in all K.I.T.T. didn't need it when racing another car.

Yeah this concerned me too. But what confused me was that when Kitt transformed from the 4x4 they said maximum speed.. but he transformed back to normal mode. Yet in the race normal mode didn't' have maximum speed at all.

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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by seeker78 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:48 am

Phoenix wrote:At the beginning I was annoyed K.I.T.T. couldn't catch up to the red exotic european car without using "attack mode." The red car wasn't that far ahead. A Shelby GT500 KR can do 0-60 in 4.1 and the 1/4 in 11.92 (with drag radials). The car can probably top out (stock) at around 200 mph. So the red exotic should be too much faster.


I agree entirely, I mentioned this in another thread also, KITT should be able to beat a normal car in his default configuration. Surely KITT would be faster than a stock GT500KR, should be able to beat most cars.

Now, MKII did tell KITT to make it look as though it was a normal Mustang, but when he saw danger, instead of going to Attack Mode, he should have said "KITT, give me full power" or something like that.

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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by NeoRanger » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:57 am

I'm starting to believe that GST is trying to pass the normal mode as a fairly regular car and have the Attack Mode as the actual Knight Rider car. He had said something to that effect in an interview and it seems that KITT has all the classic "KITT tricks" only when in attack mode.

Not that this is a good thing, seeing how rarely it's used and all.

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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by KnightINSTINCT » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:54 am

This has always been my main issue with the new car, the old one was so much better. In the first episode wouldn't a pyroclasitc lamination have protected Mike and Sarah from the heat generated by the napalm?


KI2K had the same issues. In season two, KI2T undergone heat testing to rate new limits of heat exposure that would affect Micheal. He wasn't vulnerable. KI3T had issues that are obvious: uploading sequence draining valuable power remaining, and a technologically advanced form of napalm. You can't compare old versus new with the cars, it's a matter of dramatic detail added into the storylines.

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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by DarylKnight » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:06 am

KI2K wouldn't have had the problem with napalm!?!?!? Umm.....let's go to season 3, shall we!
"Circus Knights"
KITT was getting blasted with the crazy fire truck, with that special napalm mixture, which burns and sticks to it's target. "Tiger's Crowning achivement". Micheal does say to KITT "It's getting hot in here" and KITT replies, "You better keep me moving, it's whats keeping us cool, the heat's to intense for my pyroclastic lamination" and then Micheal proceeds to say "lets show em how you move" and then they handle it from there. So I never saw the KI3000 inferior in that opening scene as we've never seen KI2K take on such a heat attack as that one.

Overall though, I'm enjoying this new show, it's like if the original KR could meet smallville. I'm diggin it so far, can't wait to see what's next.

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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by chrisjones » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 am

Did anyone realize they stated the 'red car' had a modified 'jet' based engine?
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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by BlueChaos » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:20 am

As far as I see it, the normal KI3T could only reach speeds up to 150mph, according to the digital dials in this episode. And I think I got why KI3T couldn't Turbo Boost without going to Attack Mode. I think in this episode we can see that the bottom part of KI3T became protected with that KR-logo steel underbody when he's in Attack Mode. Maybe it's that steel plating which protects him from the landing impact. Without that plating, he would damage his underbody when he's landing...

...which brings us to the point why KI2T could do it without additional underbody protections at all.

And could anyone enlighten me what's the difference between KI2T's Normal and Pursuit mode other than the speed? AFAIK, the Pursuit Mode gave nothing to KI2T other than removing the "speed cap" on the normal mode, so I think this is the same issue with KI3T. Think of the KI3T Attack Mode as KI2T Pursuit Mode, not SPM.
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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by chrisjones » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:12 am

I think a step back into reality and realizing that a lot of what goes on in this show is nothing more than creative writing for the purpose of 'story telling' would really help about now.
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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by Gadjet » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:06 am

BlueChaos wrote:As far as I see it, the normal KI3T could only reach speeds up to 150mph, according to the digital dials in this episode. And I think I got why KI3T couldn't Turbo Boost without going to Attack Mode. I think in this episode we can see that the bottom part of KI3T became protected with that KR-logo steel underbody when he's in Attack Mode. Maybe it's that steel plating which protects him from the landing impact. Without that plating, he would damage his underbody when he's landing...

...which brings us to the point why KI2T could do it without additional underbody protections at all.

And could anyone enlighten me what's the difference between KI2T's Normal and Pursuit mode other than the speed? AFAIK, the Pursuit Mode gave nothing to KI2T other than removing the "speed cap" on the normal mode, so I think this is the same issue with KI3T. Think of the KI3T Attack Mode as KI2T Pursuit Mode, not SPM.



Heres what I posted a while back about pursuit mode.

As good as a driver Micheal may be he isnt going to have the reaction time to drive at 200 mph and higher.

So when Pursuit mode or SPM are activated Kitt and Micheal are driving together, Micheal would be basicly pointning KITT where he wants to go, KITT would be scaninng the road and making ajustments to the suspention, aceliration and slight ajustments to direction as to the best way to travel at that speed.
Kitt would also be scanning ahead for any obstrurions and hacking into any trafic maingment systems to allow them a clear path safely.

Corse im only guessing thats how it would work.

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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by Knight Rider Archive » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:29 am

KnightINSTINCT wrote:
This has always been my main issue with the new car, the old one was so much better. In the first episode wouldn't a pyroclasitc lamination have protected Mike and Sarah from the heat generated by the napalm?


KI2K had the same issues. In season two, KI2T undergone heat testing to rate new limits of heat exposure that would affect Micheal. He wasn't vulnerable. KI3T had issues that are obvious: uploading sequence draining valuable power remaining, and a technologically advanced form of napalm. You can't compare old versus new with the cars, it's a matter of dramatic detail added into the storylines.


Well, K.I.T.T.'s Pyroclastic Lamination would keep him cool up to 600 degrees, but was tested by the bayou fires in Ring of Fire and the napalm gun in Circus Knights (it seemed to have been improved for Knight Flight to Freedom). The Knight 2000 had plenty of vulnerabilities -- it had to, because if the car is totally invulnerable, you have no conflict. If you have no conflict, you have no story. :)

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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by goldbug » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:35 am

While I love this show and I'm one of its more outspoken advocates, this particular sequence could have been written much better. Sometimes all it takes is one line of exposition to explain a scene's oddities. To me, the problem was that KITT and Mike were disagreeing on HOW to win the race. Mike wanted Attack Mode, KITT didn't, then KITT didn't want to transform, but Mike wanted it to etc.

The way the scene would have worked better is this:

Red car gains on KITT, then advances. KITT makes the "jet engine" comment. Mike engages Attack Mode despite KITT's protests. They gain, turbo boost, and KITT explains they've lost their lead and then BAM crash and he deactivates.

I'm sorta hoping there's some type of explanation from GST on his blog thingie. Perhaps there are notes in the script that would help clear things up.
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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by manlai » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:12 pm

I'm not really sure where the conflict is... it all seemed pretty clear to me. Here goes...

Firstly, as to the pyroclastic lamination, someone before correctly pointed out the napalm shooter in TOS and how that was damaging KI2T's structure - which was mitigated only due to the speed they were traveling at. By that alone, we know KI2T was susceptible to high temps brought on by weapons. On the other hand, KI3T withstood a full impact from a missile carrying an even more advanced form of (and hotter burning) napalm. KI3T itself seemed undamaged, unlike KI2T was. The problem they both shared was that it heated up the cabin enough to endanger human occupants. From the foregoing I surmised that KI3T was able to withstand a greater destructive force, although the danger posed to occupants were more of less the same. Also, while it has never happened exactly the same way, you may recall that KI2T has remarked that his body may not be able to withstand a direct missile hit - whereas we know that KI3T can.

Secondly, as to the race, I'm not entirely sure where the confusion lies either. It was apparent that Mike deliberately got off to a slow start in order to "put on a good act," as it were. KI3T said as much that the headstart Mike allowed offered enough of an advantage that he might actually beat KI3T, especially given the heavily modified engine in the red car (which KI3T also pointed out). Let's not forget the nitrous system in the car also. I think the big issue here is distance remaining. With a bit more time, I'm sure that Hero KI3T would overtake the red car. Given the distance left to travel in the race, there was a chance KI3T would not win without the additional speed boost offered by Attack Mode (and we can all likely agree that it does offer a substantial boost over Hero KI3T). They didn't have an argument over how to win the race (the Attack Mode argument). They argued because KI3T feared exposure while Mike was concentrating on winning. In other words, they had different objectives in mind. Transforming back in midair posed the same conflict - differing objectives. Mike was the one concerned with exposure with the crowd nearby and watching while KI3T was concerned with structural integrity.

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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by chrisjones » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:33 pm

chrisjones wrote:I think a step back into reality and realizing that a lot of what goes on in this show is nothing more than creative writing for the purpose of 'story telling' would really help about now.


Im sticking with this.
Knight Rider doesnt (yet anyway) have anywhere near the level of real world science thrown it like shows such as Star Trek and BSG. Its meant to be taken with a pinch of salt, its good fun.
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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by knightfever » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:10 pm

Didn't KI3T do 377 mph in "Shining Armor" when Billy told KITT that would neutralize the napalm fire? :?

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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by NeoRanger » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:55 pm

chrisjones wrote:Im sticking with this.
Knight Rider doesnt (yet anyway) have anywhere near the level of real world science thrown it like shows such as Star Trek and BSG. Its meant to be taken with a pinch of salt, its good fun.


My personal problem with this isn't the real-world science, I just want my KITT a little cooler. I mean, anybody ever thought the TKR cars were cool? They always looked pretty ordinary to me. I wouldn't like the new KITT to suffer from the same issues, unless he's in attack mode.

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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by Spidey323 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:56 pm

I was just thinking about the 377mph thing...but like chrisjones said, I'm going to take it with a pinch of salt. :)
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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by Army_F_Body » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:29 pm

I was thinking more from the Knight Flight to Freedom angle. Lava reaches temperatures of 700° to 1250° Celsius, which is 2000°Fahrenheit.
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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by Phoenix » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:03 pm

Quick correction, my post should say the red car "should NOT be too much faster."

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Re: K.I.T.T. unable to catch red exotic car without attack mode?

Post by Phoenix » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:15 pm

I know that the red car had some mods as well, but K.I.T.T. isn't a stock GT500KR. I already explained how fast a stock GT500 KR is so K.I.T.T. has to be faster than that. I also posted that the red car stock wouldn't be that much faster, than a stock GT500 KR (I don't think).

In other words a stock GT500 KR against that red exotic, there wouldn't be much of a difference performance wise. Then take a highly modded GT500 KR (K.I.T.T.) against a moded red exotic. The GT500 KR is the latest and supposedly better car than the original K.I.T.T. This new K.I.T.T. probably has millions invested in it's design. So it should be able to keep up with a modded red exotic that doesn't have loads of money invested in it.

Even if this red exotic car pretty much had a "ram jet", K.I.T.T. should have been able to keep up. In "pursuit mode" original K.I.T.T. could hit 300 mph. I doubt the red exotic could hit that speed. Let's not forget that they were on a two lane road with traffic and curves, so neither vehicle could "top out." K.I.T.T. should have been able to keep up without going into attack mode imo.

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